N18 Yaktribe Campaign System (Where we translate the old school feel to the modern game)

[Commissariat]

Hello!

A lot of folks, including myself, really enjoy the gritty/granular feel of the ORB/NCE campaign system. It feels dark, scrappy, and like you're a bunch of civilians trying to stay afloat. N18 doesn't really have that feel. Sure models effectively die 1/6 of the time if you don't have expendable funds for the Doc, but lethality doesn't necessarily mean it's the same gritty or granular system of Ye Olde Necromunda.

After fiddling with house rules and running a dominion campaign through the occupation phase and downtime so far, I have ran enough to know that it isn't quite the same anymore. So, inspired in part by @Petitioner's City 's Luther's War on Prospect, I want to propose and start making a Yaktribe campaign system to accompany the official rules. Note: This is in no way a Community Edition, as the game is young and fine enough, it's only a house-rule campaign format to rekindle the nostalgia/passion of the "old" rules. Who's in?

What I got so far for possibilities:

1. Old Injury Table merged with Modern Injury Table
   1. Alter Bionic rules
2. Retro Trading Post, maybe like the one that @Fold likes/posted in the Poll thread: https://yaktribe.games/community/vault/alternative-rare-trade-table.790/
   1. Altered rarity / pricing of some items?​
3. Old Advancement table
4. Gangers Work Territories!
   1. Return of income tax
5. Post Battle Actions redefined
6. Old Territories merged with Modern Territories, some custom balancing for weird stuff
7. Underdog Bonuses and Giant Killer
8. Removing Special Weapon access from Gangers
9. Return to the vague/lack of end conditions for the campaign

Possible Deviations from either the old campaign rules or the N18 rules:

1. Reintroduction of Heavies to replace Specialists and Champions, using the Specialist profile as the basis. (Probably taking up no more than a half-page in the document)
2. Definition of "What is a Tactics Deck?", I'm really feeling @Petitioner's City format. I've modified it slightly and I can put that in a separate post in this thread.
3. Definition of Exotic Pet Limits
4. Removal of certain Book of Peril mechanics or moving them to Arbitrator Tools (Alliances, etc)
5. Restructuring Capture?
6. Rebuilding Scenarios?
7. Rebuilding Advancement rating?
8. Outlaw Trade Post and Outlaw rules?
9. Redefining Stray Shot?

 

[Fold]

I don’t know much about the new game but if you get the economics right, then technically you shouldn’t need to restrict special weapons.

Since gangs in the old version were generally living on the breadline most of the time, there were usually more gang members begging for a half decent weapon than you could ever afford to equip, and visiting the trading post was usually a case of “this is what you *could* have won”!

 

[John Compton]

N17 - Eternal Campaign Ruleset

This ruleset is meant as a companion to the current ruleset in the Necromunda Rulebook and Gangs of the Underhive Book, to accommodate an ongoing game format without the constraints of a structured, finite campaign, and allowing the ongoing...

yaktribe.games

Perhaps a start for you

 

[Petitioner's City]

Thanks for the mention, @Commissariat. I also recommend @TopsyKretts 's ruleset. I think there are clearly lots of good ideas, although who knows how this week will change the game

 

[TopsyKretts]

I don’t know much about the new game but if you get the economics right, then technically you shouldn’t need to restrict special weapons.

Since gangs in the old version were generally living on the breadline most of the time, there were usually more gang members begging for a half decent weapon than you could ever afford to equip, and visiting the trading post was usually a case of “this is what you *could* have won”!

I could agree with you about it. However, I had one gang in one of the old versions that suddenly had a spike in income (think it was a lucky roll on mung vase). So it is unlikely, but can happen. Problem about being highly restrictive on income now is, there is a lot of new expensive toys. A lot of content which is simply not going to be used if income is low. I would like more income now, to be able to try brutes, pets, hangers-on, fancy equipment and weaponry. Without restrictions, this could give others the opportunity for others to spam plasma champions. And the game isn't balanced for experimental teams with a mix of all sorts of things, including mix of ranged and close combat, vs a highly tailored shooting gang.

 

[cardyfreak]

I wonder if a nice filter on weapons/equipment would be to have not just a rarity value, but also a legal/illegal rating. I haven’t seen the new black market trading post so don’t know if its only restrictions are legality based, but combining the two might give a more fluffy barrier than just income taxing a gangs takings.
So, for example, a heavy bolter could be rarity 10, but also have a legal/illegal rating of 10/8. So a legal gang would have to have a higher rating of lawfulness to wield such naughty technology in the hive, but an illegal gang has easier access to it by only needing to be illegal 8.

 

[TopsyKretts]

I expect to see something of that kind, or a higher chance for 'lawful' gangs to be outlawed if they use black market weaponry.

 

[Petitioner's City]

Some weapons are rare and some illegal, but with the same roll determining access - rare 10 and illegal 10, for example.

 

[Malo]

Thanks for the mention, @Commissariat. I also recommend @TopsyKretts 's ruleset. I think there are clearly lots of good ideas, although who knows how this week will change the game

If you're referring to the new book, it doesn't look like it changed anything at all. The new campaign seems to be Dominion with a few additional rules to handle outlaws.

 

[Devilmixer]

If you're referring to the new book, it doesn't look like it changed anything at all. The new campaign seems to be Dominion with a few additional rules to handle outlaws.

and some new "territories"

 

[TopsyKretts]

If that's the case, why not just combine the two into a single "Dominion Outlaws" campaign, which can use 1 out of 2 unique territory sets?

 

[MusingWarboss]

A lot of content which is simply not going to be used if income is low. I would like more income now, to be able to try brutes, pets, hangers-on, fancy equipment and weaponry.

Wouldn’t the old hired gun style system be the best approach to brutes, pets and hangers on? If you’re going old school.

The biggest challenge is that N1* has exploded the range of guns and kit available at start (and on sprue) so retconning that risks making people’s current gen Necromunda models unusable WYSIWYG as they can’t afford the gear the kits come with.

Plus of course the whole sticky fingers mechanic comes... err... unstuck if you remove it and suddenly people have access to 2 billion weapons. Rather than the handful previous editions presented players with unless they got rich or lucky.

 

[cardyfreak]

If the new campaign system is just a reskin of the dominion campaign, I wonder if there’s scope for us to create a cool hybrid of the two.

Essentially, you would take over territories in order to have ‘lawful’ income. But once you have a territory, you can attempt to set up a ‘racket’ within it to boost its earnings via illicit means. The two types of business could have synergies that cover each other as the current system has but also between the two types of enterprise (territory and racket), like ghast prospecting can be linked with a narco den, blood pits with fighting pits, archeotech auctioning with archeotech device, etc. that provide a boost.
These rackets would cost money to establish, and perhaps require a ganger or hanger-on to run. Benefitting from a racket by working it could lead towards an increased chance of being found out by enforcers/watchmen, and have the gang outlawed involuntarily. Perhaps being an outlaw means you can no longer earn money from your territories as no one pays up to filthy criminals, or your guys have to lay low a little till the heat blows over, and you lose synergies between the business types.
To earn money as an outlaw, you have to work your own rackets, but you can also take over an enemies racket by being victorious in a battle where a territory with a racket is staked. An outlaw cannot win the territory, only the racket, and a territory with a racket owned by an enemy gang cannot produce income.
Also, perhaps a territory with a racket that is worked always affects the legality of the gang that owns the territory, regardless of who owns the racket. Thus, setting up rackets in your own territories, whilst providing good income and benefit boosts, can allow criminal elements to move in on your turf if you’re not careful.
Lawful gangs must first conquer a territory, then the racket. A lawful gang can conquer a racket when it has claimed the territory the racket belongs to by winning a fight staked against the racket. If it loses, it suffers a negative modifier to its legal rating. If it wins, it takes over the racket.
A lawful gang who conquers a territory with a racket can also attempt to break up the racket in order to destroy it and set up its own by reporting the old racket owning gang to the enforcers which bring the cops in to break things up (perhaps by sending a contingent of enforcers to the lawful gang in a similar vein to alliances), so long as the fight takes place in the territory that the racket is based. If they are successful, the gang gains a boost to its legality rating. If they lose, they receive no modifier. Perhaps add that rackets have a rating similar to rep/lagality in order to build them (haven’t read book of judgement yet so not sure how this works as of writing), and calling in the enforcers drops your illegal rating potentially destroying your highly illegal rackets in the process, but boosts your legality which makes territories more profitable.

So-

Lawful Gangs-
- May own and work territories,
- May set up and work rackets,
- Must choose which income stream it works per territory- either territory income, or racket income,
- May attempt to destroy any rackets in conquered territories before establishing its own by requesting enforcer assistance which provides a legality rating boost if successful,
- May attempt to conquer a racket by themselves, which provides a negative legality modifier if unsuccessful,
-Cannot claim income from a territory if an enemy racket is operational within that territory
- Is liable for negative modifiers/effects of any rackets in a territory it controls.
- May only build rackets with a rating of half their legal rating

Outlaw gangs-
- Keep territory they own when they are outlawed,
- May not take over new territories,
- May not work territories,
- Can set up and earn money from rackets,
- Can take over enemy rackets in territories staked in a battle,
- May set up a racket in a territory staked in a battle if no racket is present,
- May build rackets with a rating equal to or less than their outlaw rating,
- May upgrade existing rackets using the same rating restrictions as building a new racket by paying the difference in cost between the two,

Rackets-
- Can only be set up in an empty territory,
- Must be worked by an eligible ganger or hanger-on,
- If worked, a territory gains no income (though other boons are still active),
- Have synergies with certain types of territory which boost income, though the racket must be set up IN the territory to qualify,
- Can be owned by a gang other than the gang that controls the territory,
- Every racket worked provides a -1 legality rating for the gang that owns the territory the racket is based in, to a minimum of 0. This is cumulative, and may effect the ‘legal boons’ chart (the chart printed in the book of judgement that gives you free bounty hunters and territory bonuses etc). Outlaw gangs receive no modifier.


This is all off the top of my head and without actually seeing the book of judgement yet so it probably has glaring holes and rules violations. The purpose is to add a little meat to the two types of territory, and reasons to fight over them. Also, to provide some meaningful choice and tactic to being either good or bad. If everyone is good, there’s room for someone to become a crime kingpin by muscling in on rackets and getting access to the really good stuff. If everyone is bad, there’s opportunity for a legal gang with there being loads of territories waiting to be conquered and rackets to be smashed with the help of the enforcers, perhaps keeping a few juicy ones for yourself in the process!

 

[cardyfreak]

Slight addition to the above idea-

Perhaps instead of working a racket giving a -1 flat modifier to a gang’s legal rating, perhaps the ‘outlaw’ rating could vary depending on the type of racket, in line with the outlaw rating of the type of racket.

Example-
One of the most basic types of racket would be ‘skimming off the top’. This would be a racket with a rating of 1, thus anybody with a rep of 1 can buy it, and working it gives a -1 modifier. As it is a low level racket, it could perhaps have a special ability associated that means that the territory it is attached to is able to generate income. This makes it appealing to lawful gangs who wish to earn a few extra creds, and its modifier is low so as the gang becomes more lawful, they can afford to set up a racket or two and not affect their rating too much (cos who is ever completely lawful in the hive? ).
However, setting up an archeotech auction could have a rating of 6 for the sake of this example. Thus, you could be legal 5 and set this racket up, but it would drop you down to a rating of -1 if you worked it. You would not be able to gather income from your territories as you are now outlawed. However, as your gang becomes more notoriously good, you are better able to disguise your wrongdoing, so a gang of legal rep 11 could perhaps safely take the hit to their rep by running the auction as they would still be legal 5. This rating could still allow boons and would allow your other territories to make income.

A local gang has a lawful rating of 4 so attacking the territory with the auction would be relatively pointless. The territory is an old ruins (for example) and is worthless to them, and the racket would make them outlaw if they worked it. They’ll bide their time for now until they can absorb the negative rating without too much penalty. There are other territories more enticing to attack, perhaps the drug factory with a skim to take over. Much more subtle...

However, the local outlaws are eyeing up the auction as it has synergy with their caravan roads racket (for example). They don’t care about holding territories, they just want the juicy rackets and are building a web of corruption. The auction looks very good to them, so they are more likely to attack this place. If they took over, the original gang would only lose an old ruin so may not be likely to counter attack. Besides, there’s a drugs factory with a skim being eyed up by a rival gang, that’s more useful to them so this may go unpunished for a round or two...

Not sure whether territories could have a lawful rating attached which could counter a lawless rating of a racket. If the result is positive, the territory can also provide income as it successfully hides the racket. If the result is negative, the territory can’t make money when the racket is in operation as it’s just too risky to do both.

Example-
A gang holds a bar territory. It has a rating of 2. Skimming off the top is a racket with a rating of -1, thus the total rating for this place is 1. The bar can easily handle this racket, and continues to generate income as usual. However, if you were to set up a ghast peddler here, this could have a rating of -4. The overall rating is now -2, so the bar has to close up its normal operations to host the ghast dealers, so does not generate income if the ghast racket is worked.


The purpose here is to balance legality and illegality. Legal gangs get away with being a bit naughty but can’t be too brazen as they lose their territory income. Lawless gangs don’t care and just set up whatever they want wherever they want.

So depending on the territories you settle with after a few rounds of turf grabbing, you might have a load of crap and decide the life of crime is calling until you get some decent stuff and go straight. But if you have some good territories, there’s no point spoiling them with over rated rackets that prevent the territory from functioning properly. Hopefully there’d be some meaningful decisions to be made in there.

 

[Commissariat]

So, I am a firm believer that we want to maintain as much of the NCE campaign system as possible and deviate as little as possible. That means that most, if not all, of the Dominion and Justice mechanics get tossed out the window. I am sure we'll poinr out gems to port over, but perhaps those will be put in a section of their own within the this little campaign guide. From my perspective, my priority is getting the core NCE concepts down before we add in the new stuff. Thank you @John Compton for posting your Eternal Rules, it is likely that this and the work of @Petitioner's City will spearhead most of the progress if that is something y'all are comfortable with. I will be glad to hear of how certain things ran in your Seattle game. I wasn't able to find anything of @TopsyKretts in the Vault.

As for the order we tackle things, I think the following would be the best:

1. Gang Creation
   1. Question of whether or not we change unit profiles to dumb them down
      1. ie: Heavies - Ganger dynamic being brought closer together
   2. Special Weapon Access
   3. Restriction on Champion purchasing, if they remain?
2. Match-Making
   1. Underdog / Giant-Killer
   2. How games are determined (should be simple)
   3. Zone Mortalis / Sector Mechanicus distinction?
3. Territories
   1. Income Tax
   2. Gangers work Territories
4. Pre / Post Battle Sequence
   1. Old Injury Table?
   2. Old Advancement Table?
5. Trading Post
   1. Fighter Cards, do they persist or do we get free-form?
      1. Does free-form make it into an Variants section and we adhere to Fighter Cards?
6. Outlanders Community Edition
   1. How Venators & Enforcers are effected.
7. N18 Dominion Mechanics to Keep
   1. Sub-plots & House Favors​
   2. Guild Alliances​
   3. Reputation​
   4. Book of Justice​

So, first up: Gang Creation!
It seems pretty straight forward, but starting small and easy seems appropriate for a project like this. Normal N18 has a very basic gang founding ruleset. 1000 credits, 50% gangers, 2 champions, 1 leader, X Juves. That is pretty straight forward.

How does the community feel about things like Special Weapon Access? Does Gang Creation need to change at all? Do we want to keep Leaders / Champions the way they are?

 

[el_guestos]

I've got a document (based on @TopsyKretts awesome ruleset) that attempts to address most of these things, happy to put a link to it on here if you're interested as it might serve as a starting point...I warn you it's the entire rules up to Perils and I've made a LOT of very minor changes so not at all representative of the real rules anymore in many aspects, but it does include the ideas for a perpetual campaign inc gang creation based very much on NCE ideas.

 

[Commissariat]

Link both of them! Would love a look and I am sure many would too

 

[el_guestos]

Happy to do so but before I do as it's the entire ruleset (albeit fairly modified) will it cause any IP issues for the Yak?

 

[Warplock Engineer]

What would be the purpose, mechanically, or replacing Champions/Specialists with Heavies?

 

[cardyfreak]

Happy to do so but before I do as it's the entire ruleset (albeit fairly modified) will it cause any IP issues for the Yak?

No posting of copyrighted material please. Can’t stop it being passed by PM, but if it’s based off GW’s current ruleset it may cause issues for the site. I believe we got away with hosting NCE as the ruleset was essentially abandoned and had been released digitally for free by GW anyway, but the newer ruleset is currently being actively supported and is likely to incur the wrath of they-who-would-litigate.