Figured that might be the case, if anyone is interested PM me and I'll drop you a copy
N18 Yaktribe Campaign System (Where we translate the old school feel to the modern game)
- Thread starter Commissariat
- Start date
Here is my campaign system (not updated for Outlaw campaign yet):
It has been discussed here:
yaktribe.games
I'm planning on making a hybrid that can use all parts of both Dominion and Outlaws.
Main features:
It has been discussed here:
House rules extravaganza, bye bye Dominion campaign!!!!!!
For a complete year I avoided house rules. Tried interpreting the rules to make sense. Desperately played Turf War and Dominion campaign as a proper campaign. Always disappointed. It was all a big mess. Until now! The game is stabilized. And my motivation changed, now is the time to house rule...
yaktribe.games
I'm planning on making a hybrid that can use all parts of both Dominion and Outlaws.
Main features:
- Bring back old glorious elements (roll for advances, xp system, income tax, underdog bonus)
- Income tax, some increase to income because of new expensive toys (not perfectly balanced yet)
- A mix of old and new territories
- More flavour to skills, make skills that give +1 characteristic (typially BS/WS) in some situations also give an unique ability to make it different from a simple stat increase.
- Attempt at balance, limit special weapons, incrementally increase champion cost.
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A few alternative campaign systems have now been presented on the forum, and all I've read have great improvements to what GW has publicated. However, gampaign issues for some reason doesn't produce that much discussion. I would love to have a Yak alternative New-Munda, with people playtesting different things and cosensus being made over time for the best solutions. This could propably be done avoiding legal issues by only referring to the printed books and not reproducing actual copyright material. However, it's quite a task, and there's also the fixing of the actual new game...
I've playtested a blend of new and old based on Toppsy Krett's original redesign. Mixing the best of the old and the new really is a different experience, and a much better one than the constant headaches GW are presenting. But, of course, redesigning a system comes with a whole new set of headaches. Myself, because I'm targeting new players, I need something that is as close as possible to the new books at same time as it holds on to the best from older versions of the game, and then come up with solutions for the generation gap between the new and the old.
After 10-15 games of playtesting this summer I've found:
- To begin with N18 campaigns takes seven weeks, where of one everyone involved takes a week off work and life in general, drinks tea and plans the last three weeks of the campaign. Sarcastic, as I might sound, this has major impact on game rules. If something is only meant to last a limited amount of games inherent flaws will not be as obvious, or, naturally, as damaging.
- The XP underdog bonus from before must come along with underdog funding of some sort. The richness of stash and equipment is one of N18 strengths
- N18 has a strange bloat in character development where developing gangers end being more costly to Gang Rating than recruited heroes. This is anti logical. However, syncing fighter advances to the cost recruited heroes means that that upgrades fighters get are not in touch with the actual power their upgrades represent. This kind of explains why a Toughness upgrade is very costly, but it leaves a big hole in the locig for hero recruitment cost.
- Everyone is happier with a developing gang!
Here's my version of Retro-Munda:
Deephives
I've playtested a blend of new and old based on Toppsy Krett's original redesign. Mixing the best of the old and the new really is a different experience, and a much better one than the constant headaches GW are presenting. But, of course, redesigning a system comes with a whole new set of headaches. Myself, because I'm targeting new players, I need something that is as close as possible to the new books at same time as it holds on to the best from older versions of the game, and then come up with solutions for the generation gap between the new and the old.
After 10-15 games of playtesting this summer I've found:
- To begin with N18 campaigns takes seven weeks, where of one everyone involved takes a week off work and life in general, drinks tea and plans the last three weeks of the campaign. Sarcastic, as I might sound, this has major impact on game rules. If something is only meant to last a limited amount of games inherent flaws will not be as obvious, or, naturally, as damaging.
- The XP underdog bonus from before must come along with underdog funding of some sort. The richness of stash and equipment is one of N18 strengths
- N18 has a strange bloat in character development where developing gangers end being more costly to Gang Rating than recruited heroes. This is anti logical. However, syncing fighter advances to the cost recruited heroes means that that upgrades fighters get are not in touch with the actual power their upgrades represent. This kind of explains why a Toughness upgrade is very costly, but it leaves a big hole in the locig for hero recruitment cost.
- Everyone is happier with a developing gang!
Here's my version of Retro-Munda:
Deephives
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How would we do such a project? It is quit an undertaking when I now think of ways of actually going forwards. I think a project name for headlines, and individual threads for different topics is necessary, and an online evolving document would be stars to somehow get going.
If it ends up being the platform we use, I have a trello team set up and can invite people if I receive emails over PM.
Either way, any discussion on gang creation retro-ifications that should happen?
Either way, any discussion on gang creation retro-ifications that should happen?
There are a few things to consider. For one, N18 gangs are highly differentiated and heroes are quite developed from start. I think that the gangs have different starting stats is dominantly positive, but it means that some gangs in reality start with very beneficial advances. Foremost I think this is a problem with Van Zaars 3+ BS as shooting only requires one stat, where melee depends on BS, A, Move and in general is more tricky. The highly developed heroes is a bigger issue, though. In a long term campaign an essential point is to have developing fighters. How fu is it really to start with BS at max?
Another question is to which degree we should care about aligning gang creation to the N18 process. I defentitely think there's good reason for this, especially for recruitment purposes.
Another question is to which degree we should care about aligning gang creation to the N18 process. I defentitely think there's good reason for this, especially for recruitment purposes.
I could be interested in 2 ways of playing: 1) discarding leader stats entirely and using champion stats for the leader. Then use ganger stats for both champions and gangers. 2) Power gaming, similar to the official rules/stats/costs for champions and leaders today, possibly with some reduction to van saar BS stats, or even an increase to their cost.
I wasn't expecting to change profiles, since that is more core-rule stuff, except maybe for the instance of making champions use Ganger profiles for the heavy-vibe.
If we were to edit profiles, I think making Van Saar have a flat -1 across the board to their BS values would be fine. I cannot think of any other alterations.
If we were to edit profiles, I think making Van Saar have a flat -1 across the board to their BS values would be fine. I cannot think of any other alterations.
Stats could stay as they are, but they probably should cost more then. The Armoured Undersuit costs 25 and the Armoured Bodyglove is a better version of that.
But first things first, how to organize this? I'm more of a details guy so I get easily distracted.
But first things first, how to organize this? I'm more of a details guy so I get easily distracted.
Like, where the progress is being held? I suggested Trello, if people don't mind going off-site to organize stuff.
Retro Campaign
trello.com
New Campaign
trello.com
I made a Trello Team that these boards belong to, so I can add folks to it from the board.
Trello
Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.
New Campaign
Trello
Organize anything, together. Trello is a collaboration tool that organizes your projects into boards. In one glance, know what's being worked on, who's working on what, and where something is in a process.
I made a Trello Team that these boards belong to, so I can add folks to it from the board.
1. I think the N18 stats should be kept, propably even for Van Saar.
2. The powerplay version I think is well in place using champions and leaders as they are in N18. One option should defenitely be to just play with heroes as they now come, and then have a better, old-Munda, XP and development system.
3. For proper long-term play the N18 are too developed,. The issue is to find the new starting point, and to tailor a smooth gang development system. I don't think the task is too complicated, just a little bit fiddly.
4. In the old game gangs could only ever have two heavies, and all gangs started with the same statlines. That N18 juves can develop to champions is a great concept, as I see it. However they do this as highly inferior heroes, without prospect of ever actually reaching the standard of recruited champions. Then there's the min-maxing and the ridiculous ganger advancement table where you normally get all the advancements you don't want. However, I still think tweaking this system is sensible if N18 is going to be the main framework for the project, which I assume is the intent.
Using champions as leaders is propably a reasonable way forwards. For champions I'm leaning towards giving them a couple of advancements and finding the appropriate pricing. A factor here is while Eschers have nine advancements from ganger to champion Goliaths only have six. In this there is a possibility to balance Van Saar by making their Champions start with fewer advancements, and maybe even having them cost more.
2. The powerplay version I think is well in place using champions and leaders as they are in N18. One option should defenitely be to just play with heroes as they now come, and then have a better, old-Munda, XP and development system.
3. For proper long-term play the N18 are too developed,. The issue is to find the new starting point, and to tailor a smooth gang development system. I don't think the task is too complicated, just a little bit fiddly.
4. In the old game gangs could only ever have two heavies, and all gangs started with the same statlines. That N18 juves can develop to champions is a great concept, as I see it. However they do this as highly inferior heroes, without prospect of ever actually reaching the standard of recruited champions. Then there's the min-maxing and the ridiculous ganger advancement table where you normally get all the advancements you don't want. However, I still think tweaking this system is sensible if N18 is going to be the main framework for the project, which I assume is the intent.
Using champions as leaders is propably a reasonable way forwards. For champions I'm leaning towards giving them a couple of advancements and finding the appropriate pricing. A factor here is while Eschers have nine advancements from ganger to champion Goliaths only have six. In this there is a possibility to balance Van Saar by making their Champions start with fewer advancements, and maybe even having them cost more.
Were running a campaign (based on someone else's idea from this forum) where all leader and champs start with ganger stats, but chaps get 4 advances and leaders get 6 plus +1 Ld. Wounds cost 3 advances, T, BS and choosing a secondary skill cost 2 advances and everything else (including rolling a secondary skill) cost 1 advance. Still makes the heroes stand out but make the gang as a whole much more important. Also includes much more in depth character arc as players are actually using secondary skills which leads to much more interesting characters.
In my campaign I changed two stats so there was still a chance for improvement:
- I changed van Saar, giving leaders and champs 3+, and hangers 4+. Juves were unchanged.
- I also changed Escher initiative, giving leaders, champs and juves 3+. Gangers were unchanged.
Both helped with preventing both groups start with a superhuman stat.
- I changed van Saar, giving leaders and champs 3+, and hangers 4+. Juves were unchanged.
- I also changed Escher initiative, giving leaders, champs and juves 3+. Gangers were unchanged.
Both helped with preventing both groups start with a superhuman stat.
Where is your version I know I had a look at it sometime. Don't know where, though.
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