YCE suggesetions- tactics cards

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
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I must have missed something in the posts above but what is the problem with having some action cards that give an extra action or an extra activation in a round?

Is it considered too powerful next to some of the other cards or is it just that there are too many of them?
Yes, it's considered too powerful. Same problem as Overseer. The game tend to break if a fighter is allowed more than 2 actions per turn.
Cards that outright remove or disable an enemy fighter should also be axed.

I’d also like to reiterate that creating a set of new tactic cards that can’t be translated into a standard deck of playing cards or a table is a significant issue. It’s actually something that would be a deal breaker for me to play a different ruleset.
I don't think you really need the complete set to translate into anything in particular.
As long as the rules allow for a deck size of 36 cards your deck can be mapped to a D66 table. As long as the rules don't require you to have more than 52 cards in your deck, it can be mapped to a standard playing card deck.
 
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MusingWarboss

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Oct 31, 2013
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As I said, it can be a starting point. I doubt there is a huge pool of decent tactics cards though, and creating a bunch of cards from nothing looks like less work to me than trying to fix GW's mess.

I'm not overly attached to house-specific cards either. If we get rid of them, we'll need less cards overall (say, instead of needing 50 generic cards and 30 specific card per house, we'd need only 100 generic cards), and we won't have to try and tailor them to the fluff of a specific house, and we won't have to care about balance between house cards.
Yes, in fact I believe having generic cards only is a good idea. Less work for us, more choices for the players!
You could call it the Yaktics Card deck!

To differentiate it from GWs own set.
 

ntw3001

Gang Hero
Feb 17, 2011
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What if you offered a mandatory generic tactics deck mapped to a playing card deck with aces and faces removed? That would give 36 results, which can be written up into a d66 table at the back of the book in the 'optional rules' section (I would really rather not have it included as a 'real' alternative). Then players can expand their deck as they wish by adding in those aces and faces mapped to cards chosen from elsewhere. Additional cards available to choose from could be related to houses, hangers-on, hired guns, skills, injuries (add a joker card to your tactics deck, which must be selected if drawn and has no effect), territories, purchases, whatever.

You could go so far as to give cards particular things they can be mapped to, or theme specific values to a certain style of effect (maybe aces all mess with opposing tactics cards, maybe queens all offer additional fighters). The system could be integrated strongly enough with gang development to make the design space worth working with.
 
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Galtarr

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Mar 1, 2017
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What if you offered a mandatory generic tactics deck mapped to a playing card deck with aces and faces removed? That would give 36 results, which can be written up into a d66 table at the back of the book in the 'optional rules' section (I would really rather not have it included as a 'real' alternative). Then players can expand their deck as they wish by adding in those aces and faces mapped to cards chosen from elsewhere. Additional cards available to choose from could be related to houses, hangers-on, hired guns, skills, injuries (add a joker card to your tactics deck, which must be selected if drawn and has no effect), territories, purchases, whatever. The system could be integrated much more strongly with a gang's development.
I like this idea. Forcing people to take the flavourful but not powerful cards of which there are many.

Extra action cards are powerful, not necessarily overpowered. But are also never situational. I wouldn't mind one or two(if distinct somehow e.g. some restrict to extra shooting action, (run and gun?) or one that grants say a free stand up action) But the downside of building a deck of 20 out of a large pool of cards is that I can take 5 of these making a 1in 4 chance of a strong versatile card. This means many 'fun' thematic but situational cards are not seen.

To me tactics cards should add flavourful mechanics that mix the game up not just power boosts that grant opportunity to do more of the same.

I also like the idea of a shared deck, but not sure I could sell that to my group. Did wonder about a common shared deck plus a gang themed deck? Standard is draw one of each per battle. Underdog cards from shared deck?

Away from home atm. But plan on sorting cards to make my idea of a useful common shared deck.
 
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TNTGoodLooking

New Member
Feb 16, 2020
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The way that my group is experimenting with tactics cards is pretty promising, I think. Basically, we build our decks by drafting from a pool of random cards.

We have a big proxied deck of all the generic cards. Both players shuffle half, then both players deal 10 cards. This leaves us a pool of 20 cards.
Players take turns, starting with the lower gang rating, picking one card from the pool until they have a deck of 6. It's from this small deck we draw our cards for the game.
If a player picks a card that's not applicable to the scenario (ie a card to lock soors in a SM game), they swap out that card for ANY of their gang specific cards.

We're still tweaking with the numbers, but that's pretty much it. What I really like about this system is:
1. We don't have to modify the official rules very much. No cards are banned or restricted. The imbalance between cards kind of works to our advantage because it's really exciting to see the really powerful cards get played due to how rare they are.
2. The draft adds some neat strategy. Players balance picking cards that are strong for themselves versus picking cards that are strong for the opponent to deny them having it. It's open information what's in everyone's decks, but you don't know what 2 cards they actually have. This opens room for playing around your opponent and bluffing what you've got.
3. Flavorful and sometimes bad cards get played. It's refreshing to use the sub optimal cards without feeling like you're crippling yourself.

What do you guys think? It would be really cool if some of you tried our WIP draft system.
 
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JawRippa

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Mar 31, 2017
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...
We have a big proxied deck of all the generic cards. Both players shuffle half, then both players deal 10 cards. This leaves us a pool of 20 cards.
...
The whole drafting part is cool (drafts are always fun if you are into card games) but it requires to print all generic cards and keep them in place available for all players which is a not possible for a lot of groups. The method sounds pretty fun though, I'd say it could work if your group is willing to put some work into it and does not mind spending extra time before each game. What we need for "general" use is something simple and easy to do. Printing a big list of proxy cards is hard to do.
We've tried something similar, but without drafting. It didn't take off because nobody was willing to print ~150 cards at the time (even more now, lol) and without draft it was very random. You could get very trashy or situational cards while your opponent could get a bunch of extra action ones and roll over you.
 
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Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
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What we need for "general" use is something simple and easy to do.
I agree. I do like drafting and those suggestions are a solid base for a draft system (could be refined a bit though, but good starting point), but I'd rather have something simpler that doesn't take as much time before each game.
Another issue I have with it is that it requires shuffling a tower deck of tactics cards, which is really impractical.
 

TNTGoodLooking

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Feb 16, 2020
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I'm glad you guys like the draft idea! It's definitely not great as it is for the reasons pointed out. It's cumbersome, slow, and took a lot of setup to print the cards.

I've been thinking, to let everyone use the cards they already bought and do away with proxies, how about a draft of the the two players' combined decks? Both players will bring whatever cards they have as normal to wherever they play their games.
This can give the players some agency over what cards to expect. If one doesn't like Click..., they don't include it in their deck to reduce the chance of it showing up. The cards can be as strong or weak as the players want, doing away with the need for bans and restrictions. It's balanced since whatever broken cards you bring can be used against you!

To build on this, we can impose a minimum deck size. To reduce the time and complexity of the draft, drop it to a pool of 12 cards and decks of 4. I'm not sure how gang cards would be integrated in this.

Does this sound realistic?
 

JawRippa

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Mar 31, 2017
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I'm glad you guys like the draft idea! It's definitely not great as it is for the reasons pointed out. It's cumbersome, slow, and took a lot of setup to print the cards.

I've been thinking, to let everyone use the cards they already bought and do away with proxies, how about a draft of the the two players' combined decks? Both players will bring whatever cards they have as normal to wherever they play their games.
This can give the players some agency over what cards to expect. If one doesn't like Click..., they don't include it in their deck to reduce the chance of it showing up. The cards can be as strong or weak as the players want, doing away with the need for bans and restrictions. It's balanced since whatever broken cards you bring can be used against you!

To build on this, we can impose a minimum deck size. To reduce the time and complexity of the draft, drop it to a pool of 12 cards and decks of 4. I'm not sure how gang cards would be integrated in this.

Does this sound realistic?
I think that having a draft variation with a deck mixing is a good alternative suggestion for players who still want to use all of their collection. Tactical Draft could be fun to do for "big" games. Some tactical cards in Necromunda are basically a black lotus or tarmogoyf in MTG - if you have those in a draft, they are always picked by player who goes first.

I'd prefer having a generally accessible way of playing with tactical cards though. I think we need a solid ban list. There are some cards which are designed around griefing other players - mainly one that makes their fighter fall into a pit and one that disallows to deploy fighters. Also extra actions should definitely go.
 
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almic85

Cranky Git
Oct 30, 2014
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I think a draft system is just too cumbersome for anything other than an optional house rule.

Everyone needs cards that look essentially the same from the back so either everyone uses proxies or everyone uses real cards, and both of those options are going to piss someone off.

Add in that I don’t want my cards getting mixed in with other people’s cards in case I never get them back (I’ve had actual miniatures go missing from games before and cards are even easier to pilfer) and it would be a hard pass from me.
 
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Orngog

YCE Project Manager
Aug 30, 2014
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I think the best suggestion is set deck sizes and draw -x, so both players agree on how many to hold in a deck (be it 16 or 60) and then draw x more than they require, and discard the ones they don't want.
 

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
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I think the best suggestion is set deck sizes and draw -x, so both players agree on how many to hold in a deck (be it 16 or 60) and then draw x more than they require, and discard the ones they don't want.
I agree, I see this as the only practical solution.
I think 36 is probably the best size of deck, fits perfectly on a d66 and can be easily replicated by a set of playing cards as well.
Although 18 would also work, same benefits as the above and it allows players to just buy one pack of cards - their gang's. Although 18 is quite small, it's not a big deal when you're only drawing 2 cards at a time for a game.
 

JawRippa

Gang Hero
Mar 31, 2017
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I agree, I see this as the only practical solution.
I think 36 is probably the best size of deck, fits perfectly on a d66 and can be easily replicated by a set of playing cards as well.
Although 18 would also work, same benefits as the above and it allows players to just buy one pack of cards - their gang's. Although 18 is quite small, it's not a big deal when you're only drawing 2 cards at a time for a game.
18 is a tad too small for a deck, while players draw few cards, they'll see similar good cards fairly often. 36 keeps it varied. That is, if 18 can be played with a single bought pack, it might be a decent option... But in reality it'd probably would not be possible because so many packs have extra actions and we'll hopefully end up banning them.
 

Al_Weeks

Gang Hero
Honored Tribesman
Dec 22, 2014
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18 is a tad too small for a deck, while players draw few cards, they'll see similar good cards fairly often. 36 keeps it varied. That is, if 18 can be played with a single bought pack, it might be a decent option... But in reality it'd probably would not be possible because so many packs have extra actions and we'll hopefully end up banning them.

While I sympathise that in a system without tiering or drafting that extra actions cards are problematic. I think banning there use outright is a bad move (that's something that I feel is the territory of house rules and for groups to decide).

The two recently released packs of 18 cards I think have limited extra action or action economy cards (1 or 2) and I think they all have some sort of restriction.

My personal feel is that decks of 18 or 36 and draw X+2 and choose X where X is what the scenario mandates is the best approach between, simplicity, accessibility and balance.

People can then always use this as basis for their own house rules.

I prefer 36 cards (as it has more variability and can still be mapped to a d66)

I think we can provide some variant of the House of books card tables but with 36 entries for each gang.

We can make sure these tables either have no extra action cards or only a limited number (say 2, 3 or 4) so that the chances of getting more tha none are pretty low etc.
 
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