N18 Yet another Escher 1000pts list

[Cpt_Flynt]

Hi everyone !
I know there is several thread about Escher starting list but I couldn't find my answer so I'm looking for advice from veteran players.
I'm already used to play GW games as I just stopped W40k: kill team tournament due to the competitive games and begin Necromunda for more fun and scenaristic games.
Here my Escher starting list:

• Queen - mesh armor - lasgun with hotshot - Overseer
• Matriarch - mesh armor, undercover armor - boltgun, throwing knife, smoke grenade - spring up
• Deathmaiden - mesh armor, undercover armor - needle pistol, stiletto sword - combat virtuoso
• Specialist - mesh armor - grenade launcher
• Wyld runner - whip, stub gun - 2 Phelynx
• Sister - lasgun
• Little sister - stub gun, stiletto knife
• Little sister - stub gun

With that I have 10 models, 8 activations.
Queen is supposed to be played with Deathmaiden to launch it onto enemies with overseer and a little sister to open doors during group activation with deathmaiden
Matriarch is supposed to play with sister lasgun for covering fire
Wyld runner is suppose to handle opposite flank of Queen/deathmaiden

I've tried this gang in one game, it seem to run ok but I still have several questions:

• Matriarch could be replaced with another deathmaiden with same stuff, gang would be less effective in long range but Queen could "fire" 2 deathmaiden with overseer (12" first activation, then charge + combat virtuoso mean 22" minimum of threatening) into enemies for maximum chaos. Is it a good idea ?
• Wyld runner look fun, but they can only become matriarch, so they'll will only unlock group activation... I Could change the gang to:
  • remove the Wyld runner, the undercover armor of the matriarch
  • Add a second matriarch with boltgun, throwing knife and mesh armor
  • Add a little sister with stub gun for mission objectif or loot caskets
• This would improve the long range efficiency with 2 matriarch boltgun

Are the Wyld runner (and the phelynx) good or just fun ? If yes how make them good ?

Finally, you have to know that I'll face an oarlock with wrecker/demo charge and a leader with overseer, so I'm terrified of that 30" range demo charge

Thank you to everyone, especially those who have read this far. Apologies for any spelling mistakes I'm only used to read English, not write it.

P.S: a rule question: as deathmaiden with combat virtuoso can fight 3", if they charge many enemies, what can do surviving enemies that are within 3" but not B2B ? (I assume only charge or retreat)

 

[katfezza]

I think keeping a matriarch instead of swapping for a 2nd death maiden would be best. Combined activations can be very useful and death maidens can't do those.

Don't be too afraid of the Orlock wrecker, if they are using the boosted jump and throwing demo charges they are quite likely to blow themselves up through "unstable". Sure, they can do some damage if lucky, but it's a one shot attack. Remember the penalty for targetting a point on the ground, and the bonus armour for being behind cover from blast weapons.

Wyld Runners are okay, they are probably more useful if your campaign wuill be in the Ash Wastes as you can give them jetbikes. Phelynxes are a little underwhelming, but can be useful to coup de grace downed enemies.

 

[Vonvilkee]

P.S: a rule question: as deathmaiden with combat virtuoso can fight 3", if they charge many enemies, what can do surviving enemies that are within 3" but not B2B ? (I assume only charge or retreat)

No escher info but as to your ps

Versatile only "engages" during that fighters combat action. So survivors can not retaliate (unless in b2b or equipped with versatile themselves) and during their own activation can do anything including shoot you from where they stand! You can stop your charge short of b2b if you want per the FAQ

 

[Cpt_Flynt]

I think keeping a matriarch instead of swapping for a 2nd death maiden would be best. Combined activations can be very useful and death maidens can't do those.

Don't be too afraid of the Orlock wrecker, if they are using the boosted jump and throwing demo charges they are quite likely to blow themselves up through "unstable". Sure, they can do some damage if lucky, but it's a one shot attack. Remember the penalty for targetting a point on the ground, and the bonus armour for being behind cover from blast weapons.

Wyld Runners are okay, they are probably more useful if your campaign wuill be in the Ash Wastes as you can give them jetbikes. Phelynxes are a little underwhelming, but can be useful to coup de grace downed enemies.

Thanks for advices, I'll keep the Matriarch, what about swapping wyld runner/phelynx/underarmor for Matriarch/little sister ?

Which targeting penalty ? I've been searching for that rules but I can't find it neither in rulebook nor erratas.

 

[Vonvilkee]

Which targeting penalty ? I've been searching for that rules but I can't find it neither in rulebook nor erratas.

What rule book are you using? The most recent (hard back 2023) states that targeting a specific spot on the battle field suffers a -2 to hit. It just is what it is, you would think hand thrown grenades would ignore it but they do not.

I get what you are saying though cuz that big template even "missing" the exact location aimed is still very likely to hit some one but you can't make an omelet with out breaking some eggs. You have the death maiden overseer thing, that your opponent is just as afraid of with equally poor choices for stopping it.

 

[Cpt_Flynt]

I'm using Two rules compendium I found on internet

What rule book are you using? The most recent (hard back 2023) states that targeting a specific spot on the battle field suffers a -2 to hit. It just is what it is, you would think hand thrown grenades would ignore it but they do not.

I get what you are saying though cuz that big template even "missing" the exact location aimed is still very likely to hit some one but you can't make an omelet with out breaking some eggs. You have the death maiden overseer thing, that your opponent is just as afraid of with equally poor choices for stopping it.

I'm using Two rules compendium I found on internet

• one is ultimates rulebook by shoggoth v2.01
• second is necromunda comprehensive rulebook v 7.03

but it seems that both are obsolete ^^

Yes I'm already ok with the idea of eating a blast charge, little sisters are also here to act as "meat shield" for the champions, I'm looking for a payback or a way to hunt/avoid that wrecker before its suicide charge ^^

 

[Vonvilkee]

I'm using Two rules compendium I found on internet

I'm using Two rules compendium I found on internet

• one is ultimates rulebook by shoggoth v2.01
• second is necromunda comprehensive rulebook v 7.03

but it seems that both are obsolete ^^

Yes I'm already ok with the idea of eating a blast charge, little sisters are also here to act as "meat shield" for the champions, I'm looking for a payback or a way to hunt/avoid that wrecker before its suicide charge ^^

Oh in that case, overseer requires a LD test for the actions to be passed. Fail it and the actions are wasted.

I've only ever used the physical book rules. I'm a little old school and prefer print over digital for reading.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

I've only ever used the physical book rules. I'm a little old school and prefer print over digital for reading.

In the Grim Darkness of the Future there is only Books.

(Suck it Kindle).

 

[Hobo86]

and recaff (pdfcoffee)

 

[Cpt_Flynt]

I've ordered the last rulebook ^^

It remains the base subject of the topic, which list is better for you ? :

• Queen - mesh armor - lasgun with hotshot - Overseer
• Matriarch - mesh armor, undersuit armor - boltgun, throwing knife, smoke grenade - spring up
• Deathmaiden - mesh armor, undersuit armor - needle pistol, stiletto sword - combat virtuoso
• Specialist - mesh armor - grenade launcher
• Wyld runner - whip, stub gun - 2 Phelynx
• Sister - lasgun
• Little sister - stub gun, stiletto knife
• Little sister - stub gun

or

• Queen - mesh armor - lasgun with hotshot - Overseer
• Matriarch - mesh armor - boltgun, throwing knife - spring up
• Matriarch - mesh armor - boltgun, throwing knife - spring up
• Deathmaiden - mesh armor, undersuit armor - needle pistol, stiletto sword - combat virtuoso
• Specialist - mesh armor - grenade launcher
• Sister - lasgun
• Little sister - stub gun, stiletto knife
• Little sister - stub gun
• Little sister - stub gun

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Personally I would pick your first list (more interesting stuff to play with, clone champions get a bit dull even if both are rocking Bolters)
Drop the Hotshot on your queen (either list) it frees up 30 credits on a overseer model who will not spend too much time shooting anyway. You can upgrade it later and I would give it to the sister first. You can get two shots of a hot shot sister with Overseer or one Hotshot from the queen and a normal one and waste the skill.
Drop the throwing knives from both lists. As a back up weapons they are really not great. A 6+ ammo roll on the bolter is annoying but you can attempt least try to reload it. The knives you can't and it takes up a weapon slot you could fill with a lasgun at double the range that always reloads for the same price. (Throwing knives do not work in melee).
That is 30-25 credits you free up for a chem synth for the Death maiden which really hits hard.
I would also drop the Smoke grenades on the matriarch and give the grenade launcher version to your specialist instead. More tactically useful in the launcher with it's range and it's 4+ ammo roll let's you reload all your GL ammo in a 4+ not the frag and kraks 6+.

 

[Cpt_Flynt]

Personally I would pick your first list (more interesting stuff to play with, clone champions get a bit dull even if both are rocking Bolters)
Drop the Hotshot on your queen (either list) it frees up 30 credits on a overseer model who will not spend too much time shooting anyway. You can upgrade it later and I would give it to the sister first. You can get two shots of a hot shot sister with Overseer or one Hotshot from the queen and a normal one and waste the skill.
Drop the throwing knives from both lists. As a back up weapons they are really not great. A 6+ ammo roll on the bolter is annoying but you can attempt least try to reload it. The knives you can't and it takes up a weapon slot you could fill with a lasgun at double the range that always reloads for the same price. (Throwing knives do not work in melee).
That is 30-25 credits you free up for a chem synth for the Death maiden which really hits hard.
I would also drop the Smoke grenades on the matriarch and give the grenade launcher version to your specialist instead. More tactically useful in the launcher with it's range and it's 4+ ammo roll let's you reload all your GL ammo in a 4+ not the frag and kraks 6+.

That's good advices, i'll try it, thanks you

 

[Psyan]

I'm mostly on the same page as LC, but I like list #2, although feel like it's a little short on non gang-hierarchy fighters; if you were to lose one of your Little Sisters, you'd be forced to drop a Matriarch.

Here are my suggestions to fix that:

Drop the HotShot from your Queen (30cr), the Throwing Knives from your Matriarchs (10cr total), the Undersuit from the Death Maiden (25cr), the Mesh Armor from the Specialist (15cr) and the Stiletto Knife from the Little Sister (20cr).
30 + 10 + 25 + 15 + 20 = 100cr

You can always repurchase the Mesh Armor, the Undersuit and Stiletto Knife later. Skip the Throwing Knives; they're kinda pointless when you can have a Lasgun for the same price.

Use those 100cr to get yourself a Sister with a Lasgun, another Little Sister with a Stubgun and a Chem Synth for your Death Maiden.
Use the remaining 5cr to do whatever you like.

If you're not a fan of cloned Matriarchs, you can swap one from Boltgun to Grenade Launcher or "downgrade" one to a Shotgun + Acid Rounds and give your Grenadier Specialist Smoke Ammo for that sweet 4+ reload.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

I'm mostly on the same page as LC, but I like list #2, although feel like it's a little short on non gang-hierarchy fighters; if you were to lose one of your Little Sisters, you'd be forced to drop a Matriarch.

I'm an abbreviation now? Is this what the cool young kids feel like?
I have heard of people losing a gang fighter and having to drop a champion to maintain the ratios but not actually seen it. Only a spread of non lethal injuries. Or a near complete Total Party Kill in the first game where pretty much a whole gang dies. (DO NOT under any circumstances roll for lasting injuries when facing an ash nomads gang and the music from the Book of Boba Fett is on. It does not end well).
I'm pretty sure this middle ground where a single fighter dies is a myth...

Here are my suggestions to fix that:

Drop the HotShot from your Queen (30cr), the Throwing Knives from your Matriarchs (10cr total), the Undersuit from the Death Maiden (25cr), the Mesh Armor from the Specialist (15cr) and the Stiletto Knife from the Little Sister (20cr).
30 + 10 + 25 + 15 + 20 = 100cr

I believe I saw @Cpt_Flynt plan to Overseer catapult the Murder Tornado across the board so I would keep the Armoured under suit so she has a chance to escape retribution.

You can always repurchase the Mesh Armor, the Undersuit and Stiletto Knife later. Skip the Throwing Knives; they're kinda pointless when you can have a Lasgun for the same price.

Ah the one gang where throwing knives could actually be effective. Then they give out 5 credits lasguns. Nuts to that plan.

Use those 100cr to get yourself a Sister with a Lasgun, another Little Sister with a Stubgun and a Chem Synth for your Death Maiden.
Use the remaining 5cr to do whatever you like.

Or maybe get a slight more robust Sister or upgrade other little sister's but Esher are probably one of the few Ganga where their juves can stand in for gamgers.

If you're not a fan of cloned Matriarchs, you can swap one from Boltgun to Grenade Launcher or "downgrade" one to a Shotgun + Acid Rounds and give your Grenadier Specialist Smoke Ammo for that sweet 4+ reload.

Solid advice. Grenade launchers rule. And unless you see a tonne of Orlocks who put shotguns to a whole new level, shotguns with a choice piece of ammo are solid reliable cheap workhorses and good choices.

 

[Cpt_Flynt]

Thanks both of you @Psyan and @Lunarcruiser for those good advices, i'm actually following some of them
I'm wondering if grenade launcher could be replaced by needle rifle and its +2 BS at short range. The -2 hit on point make grenade launcher far less sexy than before and I trust my friend to (almost) never give me the opportunity to hit several gangers when aiming directly at one

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Thanks both of you @Psyan and @Lunarcruiser for those good advices, i'm actually following some of them
You're welcome

I'm wondering if grenade launcher could be replaced by needle rifle and its +2 BS at short range.

The needle rifle short range is garbage. By the time you get into short range that Stimmer/Naght-Ghul can trip and fall into combat and smush you.
While a better way to deliver chem alchemy than the pistol it is not a feasible primary weapon. Better a late stage purchase to supplement your girls primary weapons.
It may be cheap but the utility and upgradability of the Grenade launcher trumps it long term. Buy a grenade ammo and it stays forever. You need to Constantly buy new toxin ammo for the rifle.

The -2 hit on point make grenade launcher far less sexy than before and I trust my friend to (almost) never give me the opportunity to hit several gangers when aiming directly at one

That penalty is only when targeting a space in the floor, not models. You can always Aim to gain a +1 to hit, so -1 overall. The Blast grenades will also scatter if you miss so something will happen somewhere close. If it's a smoke grenade it is still pretty likely that the smoke cloud will be somewhere useful even if you miss. The Krak grenade profile is hands down the nastiest single target shot you can get for that low price of 65 credits (single target so no -2 targeting the ground penalty). Don't have a group target? Krak to the face.

If your opponent wises up to not giving you group targets it has a number of effects. The opponent gang is more spread out. They are less able to support each other. Esher are pretty nippy, a spread out target gang is more likely to have isolated gangers etc to target without support so are easier to kill.
A blast template weapons can murder closely packed foes. Or split them up just by existing. It allows you to control the battlefield. Add Smoke grenades and you can close off fire lanes further controlling the field. The 5" Flash template can neuter a brace of gangers, while being very hard to miss something with that pie plate.
As Esher the addition of chem alchemy can actually make Choke and Scare grenades worth it if you can afford the outlay. And has a much better range than the needle rifle. And has Kraks as a backup.
Love thy Grenade launcher.