Youtubers!

Raven Morpheus

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OK so first up, this is a rant of sorts, a bit random, and I am going to make some generalisations, so apologies in advance.

I'm getting fed up with youtubers when it comes to the tabletop gaming/miniature painting hobby. You go looking for a "how to" type of video, to learn or just for ideas, and you get a large number of youtubers who've done what you're looking for. However...

...Many of them use this that or the other company's products exclusively, seemingly pushing those products, whilst pretending not to be shills. Not a problem, but it'd be nice if they weren't trying to disguise the fact they're shilling for any particular company...

Many are fronted by women, who, to be frank, are not unattractive (seemingly intentionally), or couples, many of whom I am sure have no actual interest in what they're painting, or gaming with, they've simply jumped on the bandwagon to make money. There's a couple (man and woman), I think they're actually British, I think they claim to be married/engaged/dating whatever, who to me just seem to like to show off how wealthy, attractive, fit/healthy etc. they are, whilst supposedly making content about 40k...

I also find it frustrating when I come across those where the title indicates a "quick easy cheap budget friendly etc." method, then you find out from watching the actual video that they use paints/tools/materials from all across the product spectrum, sometimes stuff you can't even get in the UK and their method will in fact cost you a small fortune unless you happen to, on the off chance, once in a blue moon, have exactly what they're using!?! I'm sure some people have no idea what a budget actually is!?!

And now 3D printing seems to be "the thing" for these youtubers, especially the one's who claim their videos to be of the "budget friendly" variety - 3D printing is not "budget friendly" unless you've already chucked hundreds of £/$ at it to start with!!

It doesn't help that most youtubers seem to be from across the pond, i.e. the US, which befuddles me given the amount of complaints about GW's international pricing I see across the internet. You'd think gamers/painters in the US were having their pockets squeezed, but the proliferation of US youtubers and their seeming affluence indicates otherwise!?!

And even the newer channels all seem to have nice swanky professional studios with all the tools/paints etc. anyone could want/need, despite youtube supposedly not being such a great income stream when you're starting out! Do y'all in the US get a degree in Social Media, then get bunged a big bag of Dwarven gold to go setup a studio?! I came across one lady the other day, she's been on youtube since the start of the pandemic, could probably do glamour modelling and of course she had the pre-requisite "look at me and my expensive studio" video on her channel...

Don't get me wrong, there are some gems out there, many of whom have been plugging away at it for years, like Vince Ventruella (sometimes), Juan Hidalgo (kind of), Kenny Boucher (depends), Sword and Steel, Dana Howl (I rarely watch content by those two ladies though, and there are a couple of other ladies I forget the name of who seem reasonably genuine and helpful), Duncan Rhodes, and to a degree GW's own channel.

But they're in the minority!


I know, I know, I should setup my own channel... *walks away grumbling about lack of funds, lack of a professional studio, lack of general painting skill and/or video producing ability, needing an attractive person to front it etc. etc.*


Your thoughts?
 
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drdrybrush

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My thoughts, and I genuinely mean this in a supportive way but that's hard to convey in text, are that if you've found a gap in content I.E. actually low budget entry level type advice on hobby stuff you should one hundred percent make the content my guy 🙂


I've only just started the youtubes and my budget is zero other than minis I play with myself and paints I use for myself anyway.

I use my Samsung galaxy and free to use editing stuff from the Google store and its not overly difficult to use as long as you have an idea that you can share 🙂

Shit, ill be your first subscription if it helps, I challenge you in the name of Lord Helmawr to create a short video on your phone, edited on your phone and uploaded to YouTube all for under 10 great British quiddly diddles good chap 💪

I agree that there seems to be a slew of high budget and production value chanels out there but I'm sure the vast majority have put in swathes of time and money into achieving it.

My favourite battle report channels MiniGamingMontage and Winters SEO both use their phones and on phone basic software so I figured I had no excuse in gilding off 🙂

If ypu don't want to be in front of a camera then don't, use an avatar of some kind and if you have a horrendous speaking voice then use a TTS device or put text in screen 🙂

We need more creators out there so go create!
 

MusingWarboss

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A lot start out quite small and over time get better equipment, space, materials etc.

I’m thinking of Luke’s APS (new Geek Gaming Scenics) particularly. When I first saw him he was just in a spare bedroom, in his vest with a phone headset stuck in his ear to get better sound in on his phone - which he was recording on.

If you go to his GGS channel now it’s all swish, 3D printing etc - but he no way started there. Go to Video, Date Added (oldest) and you’ll see stuff from five years ago which is all about being thrifty in the hobby.

That’s actually what attracted me to his stuff way back then.

Here’s an example:
 

Raven Morpheus

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Yeah, Luke is one of those gems I should have included in my list where I talked about them being in the minority.

And they do seem like the minority these days because I'm coming across so many channels that have suddenly popped up seemingly from nowhere in recent years, even pre-pandemic, where they seemingly have professional levels of equipment and studios to work from on day 0 of their channel. It's almost as though there are professional media companies out there bank-rolling those channels, like a TV production company or movie studio would fund a TV show or movie, at least for their startup costs, because apparently, according to many established youtubers, you don't make much money to begin with....

Who knows though, maybe the youtubers in question (not people like Luke) all gave up their day jobs to turn their hobby into a business, took out massive loans backed up with a business plan, and are now in massive debt whilst running their youtube channel as a startup business!?!

It's more an observed trend, and frustration at my own situation currently, than any desire to start being a youtuber myself though.
 
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NoOneII.

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Regarding the pure technicalities of recording audio and video:
It's never been cheaper and easier to have decent technical quality. As mentioned above, smartphones basically do the trick by now. Good Mics you can just plug into your computer are very affordable by now.
Editing can be done for free or a little subscription fee.
It seems like big budget, but it needn't be nowadays.

Other than that: Those 'ladies' are youtubers just like those "gentlemen".
And I am wondering why "ladies" need to be specifically addressed that way.
There's a snarky comment in my fingers that really wants to get out, but I purposefully keep it in.
Just know I am disagreeing with your phrasing.
 
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Stoof

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Don't be fooled by YouTube affluence. It's surprisingly easy to appear well off on YouTube/Social media. A woman I went to school with was a YouTuber/Instagrammer for a while - her videos were shot in rented or historical publically available houses, the clothes were worn for the shoots and returned, the cars were borrowed or rented. She evntually did up one room in her mum's house as swankily as she could afford. Paying for all that meant she actually made very little from her various ad revenue, plugging products and strange fans donating money to her. She still lived with her mum at 35. It was hard work for not much return.

The cameras and equipment have never been cheaper. There are really good video editing suites that are free and even some pro level ones only cost £100 or so. The most expensive item - a decent HD video camera - is in built in the modern phone you probably already own.

As for building the sets and equiment etc I don't know - I don't watch much hobby content on YouTube at all, so I don't really know what is striking about them. They get a lot of stuff free for plugging certain brands or shops, so it's possible they actually paid for very little of it.

One thing that's hard to fake is the skill it takes to paint well. If you're seeing these ladies and you doubt they have any interest and are just there as eye candy, but they're giving good advice and painting models really nicely, then are you sure you're making the right call about them?
 

ClockworkOrange

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Also the Troll is always interested in attractive people and/or hobby channels! provide links, there’s a good Yak 🤣🤣
 
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Tiny

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In addition to those already mentioned, I very much like: Miscast, Boylei Hobby Time, Luke Towan, Night Shift, Scratch Bashing, Pete the Wargamer, Eric's Hobby Workshop, Sonic Sledgehammer ... and likely many more I can't recall.

I have also noticed a huge upsurge in female presenters on gaming channels. Some of them are very talented, some are just presenters employed for obvious reasons (Looking at you GW with your "how to play" videos). Not complaining. Nobody is forcing me to watch sub-par content.
 
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Raven Morpheus

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Apart from unnecessary misogyny, I mostly agree. I'm going to pop a vessel if I hear "Streaking Grime" one more time 😄

Misogyny? Hmm 'kay...

Other than that: Those 'ladies' are youtubers just like those "gentlemen".
And I am wondering why "ladies" need to be specifically addressed that way.
There's a snarky comment in my fingers that really wants to get out, but I purposefully keep it in.
Just know I am disagreeing with your phrasing.

Yes those ladies are indeed no different to the gentlemen. How would you like me to phrase it though? It seems whatever way one phrases it these days someone takes offence.

I used the term ladies, because I didn't want to use the terms women, female, girls, or members of the opposite sex. I, obviously wrongly, thought it would be a more safe, politically correct, term to use, that no-one would get triggered by.

If you want to read any more into it, given that neither of you know me personally, well, that says more about you than I. Both of you.


Apologies to every one else reading this, I don't want an argument, I've made a series of observations, but I won't be called out for misogyny where there was none intended (or even actually present) nor on phrasing I've used given that I've tried to be very careful to not use terms that trigger people into attacking my observations based on that person's perceived political correctness.
 
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Raven Morpheus

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Don't be fooled by YouTube affluence. It's surprisingly easy to appear well off on YouTube/Social media. A woman I went to school with was a YouTuber/Instagrammer for a while - her videos were shot in rented or historical publically available houses, the clothes were worn for the shoots and returned, the cars were borrowed or rented. She evntually did up one room in her mum's house as swankily as she could afford. Paying for all that meant she actually made very little from her various ad revenue, plugging products and strange fans donating money to her. She still lived with her mum at 35. It was hard work for not much return.

The cameras and equipment have never been cheaper. There are really good video editing suites that are free and even some pro level ones only cost £100 or so. The most expensive item - a decent HD video camera - is in built in the modern phone you probably already own.

As for building the sets and equiment etc I don't know - I don't watch much hobby content on YouTube at all, so I don't really know what is striking about them. They get a lot of stuff free for plugging certain brands or shops, so it's possible they actually paid for very little of it.

One thing that's hard to fake is the skill it takes to paint well. If you're seeing these ladies and you doubt they have any interest and are just there as eye candy, but they're giving good advice and painting models really nicely, then are you sure you're making the right call about them?


Yeah, I get that some youtubers fake their affluence. Perhaps that's what I'm seeing, fake affluence. I don't know. But can you rent Iwata Eclipse airbrushes, cameras, expensive lighting etc.?

I also get that they get freebies. I came across one channel, apparently setup last year, by a young lady in the US (cue the political correctness brigade), where she seems to be solely shilling for GW, and I'm well aware that GW have a partners programme or whatever they call it, so all the stuff is given to her gratis. I thought however that you'd have to have some kind of existing viewership/subscribers/followers etc. for companies to want to give you freebies to make youtube content about? The channel I've just mentioned seemed to have started up last year, and bang! was getting GW freebies from day 0?!

That kind of goes back to my comment about media companies potentially fronting such channels, that channel in particular was almost as though GW had set her up as part of their own marketing!?!

With regards to "making the right call about them", perhaps, like I stated, Dana Howl, Sword and Steel (and there's one other I can't recall the name of) are gems. But I've come across so many channels where they come across as just being there for their own vanity, the income, or anything but being a hobbyist.

Some may be getting me wrong, it's not just female fronted channels that are like that, but I've noticed there is a trend at the moment. So shoot me.
 
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NoOneII.

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I am very glad that I apparently misread you there.

Some passages of your rant seem to imply to me, and apparently to atleast Gydob as well, that women are in those channels because of -well- boobs make "sales", without being truly interested in the material. (Mostly the 4th paragraph.)
I am damn sure there's easier and more financially fruitful topics to cover on youtube than space soldiers, if on doesn't care about the source material.

If that implication is unintended, that's good. Maybe Gydob and I are too sensitive. Possible.
Still I don't want to leave this possible implication uncommented. Just because those implications are very often stated in careless neglect & stupidity or even malicious intent. Both online and offline.

Our local gaming bubble has made very concious and deliberate effort to be open and welcoming for hobbyists that happen to be female. Or, to be open to females who like to be hobbyists. Successfully so.
Some of them used to be "Bob's / Tim's Girlfriend" before, now they have a name and will gladly smash my Bloodbowl Goats to bloody pulp. In one case, the question is "Will Katie's husband also join for the barbecue night?"
When whe have a gaming weekend, it's not the usual Sausage Fest anymore, but a true family event, with the "parental beings of any gender" taking turns watching the flock of kids, so the others can play in relative peace.

Why am I elaborating on this? Because that way we learned why those female gamers and hobbyists had stayed away from it in the past. (Despite watching the whole LotR extended Trilogy twice a year for a decade, in one case. )

Derogatory implications like the above were half of the reason. The other half was drooling guys staring at their boobs whenever they entered a gaming space. Some folks even managed to do both at the same time. Impressive Feat.

However: I am glad that is not what you wanted to say and took the time to correct that false impression.
 
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Raven Morpheus

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However: I am glad that is not what you wanted to say and took the time to correct that false impression.


Yeah actually that is what I am saying, because, besides a few examples (a couple of which I've mentioned), that's what I'm seeing. I won't be called out however for making the observations that some channels are just that. The trend exists, whether you like it, want to acknowledge it, or not. I was however trying not be so crass about it, because I knew people, such as yourself and guydob, would get triggered by it.

It's an observation, and by the way I understand and agree with everything else you have stated. Good on you for making your club family friendly.

If you want to call me out on making an observation, that you find politically unpalatable, then like I said, that's more about you than I.

And also like I said, I don't want an argument about it. I'm not trying to have an argument about the preponderance of youtube channels fronted by young attractive ladies, I have no problem with that, other than that many don't seem interested in what they're painting, reviewing etc., beyond it being an income generation exercise or vanity project. There's loads of blokes out there that are like that also, but they haven't come to my attention recently so much, so I've not made that observation.
 
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Tiny

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I, obviously wrongly, thought it would be a more safe, politically correct, term to use, that no-one would get triggered by.
Regardless of what you call anything these days it will trigger someone. Woman, female, birthing person, person with cervix, uterus owner, non-male... someone is gonna get upset.

People seemingly get upset about companies using women to sell things to horny men (Formula 1 grid girls being a great example), and then also get upset when you point out that someone is using women to sell things to horny men. I think some folk just like being outraged.

I am damn sure there's easier and more financially fruitful topics to cover on youtube than space soldiers, if on doesn't care about the source material.

Women have been making money from things predominantly men tend to be interested in since time immemorial. Why would toy shooty men be any different? People thought the same about video games a few years ago, yet now look how many attractive women are making a fortune playing video games on twitch.

Not saying they're all doing it, or that the ones doing it aren't interested in the source material at all. Just agree with @Raven Morpheus that there are some that seem to be doing it purely to make money from horny boys.

Are you telling me that GW (and Geek & Sundry) didn't employ Becca Scott to present their rules videos at least in some small part because she's a very attractive young woman who would appeal to horny boys? Because if you are I don't believe you.
 
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TopsyKretts

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A lot of youtubers seem really shallow, like they don't know what content they're dealing with or what's special about it. Seems like they just get free content for games they never have played and probably never will play. Meaning that you don't lose any information by muting them.
 

NoOneII.

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GW of course employed Becca Scott for the sole purpose of showing that the hobbyists can and should be diverse!
And I never rolled double skulls on the blood bowl pitch. Ever.

Actually I didn't know who Becca Scott is before those GW-videos, and to this day I only know that of her. And that those videos felt too abstract, professional to feel authentic. Like when you hire a professional presenter to present your whatever-you-do.
I'd hope that GW's motivation wasn't only "sex sells", but I am sure some of the mustardyellowortealpants at GW willingly took the risk of selling more stuff to drooling teens, so they could be diverse and inclusive.
 
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Tiny

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My main grumble about YouTubers these days is that it seems a lot of them are making videos purely to shill a product. i.e. the topic of the video is the product being shilled.

Luke's APS and Black Magic Craft seem to have both gone that way lately.

I don't begrudge a YouTuber making money and the odd 20 second Raid Shadow Legends or Audible ad is a given, but when every other video is just a full on product shill then its getting a bit silly.
 

Stoof

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The only person I regularly watch on YouTube is our lord & saviour Ian McCollum. He only tries to sell stuff if he's personally super excited by it. I wish more were like that.
 
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Raven Morpheus

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GW of course employed Becca Scott for the sole purpose of showing that the hobbyists can and should be diverse!
And I never rolled double skulls on the blood bowl pitch. Ever.

Actually I didn't know who Becca Scott is before those GW-videos, and to this day I only know that of her. And that those videos felt too abstract, professional to feel authentic. Like when you hire a professional presenter to present your whatever-you-do.
I'd hope that GW's motivation wasn't only "sex sells", but I am sure some of the mustardyellowortealpants at GW willingly took the risk of selling more stuff to drooling teens, so they could be diverse and inclusive.


Personally I found Becca Scott's videos to be patronising at best, and GW didn't seem to be using her in a "sex sells" manner, not unless you're into scarves, fake flying hats and fake flight goggles, as they dressed her up in for the Aeronautica Imperialis video.

Becca Scott seems to be an odd case to me. If GW are genuinely interested in diversity/inclusivity in their media output, why do they not have any thing but male painters doing their tutorials on their youtube channel? A question for another thread perhaps...
 
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