N18 Starting with Orlock

[Happy!]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and to Necromunda.
I owned the 95 edition and played a few games back then but not much more.
Now I have bought the new edition and I'm primarily interested in playing Orlock.
I have started modelling and painting a little.
I understand it is a common house rule to allow weapon swaps and I'm going to build my gang with that in mind.
I'm not very interested in painting several different versions of leaders and champions so I'm thinking of building the models as i envison their end stage when upgraded and accept that they are not 100% wysiwyg from start. Do people in general find this approach acceptable?

For example for my leader I'm thinking of equipping him with a combi bolter/melta a thunder hammer and a plasma pistol. From the start he will treat these weapons as a boltgun and maul/power maul and a stubgun. Model will be holding the combi weapon and thunder hammer and have a holsterd gun.
Is this a crazy idea or would most people allow it?

 

[Sicko]

Really depends on how your group feel about it you'd have to ask them as long as its clear who is who and everyone knows what they have before starting you should be ok.

If you want to put the work in you could always magnetize the lims/weapons on the models so you only paint 1 body but swap out weapons as required.

 

[Happy!]

I am not an expert at building and painting miniatures so I prefer to keep it simple even if magnetization seem like a good solution.
I'm not really part of any group yet, have only played casual games with a friend.
I find it interesting how people solve the problem with upgrading fighters equipment and how strict you are with wysiwyg. I have seen discussions about armour an wargear where most people seem to be relaxed about wysiwyg but maybe its stricter with weapons generally.

I have some kind of general plan for how I want my Orlock gang look when developed ant want your comments if it's a good or bad plan.

Leader as detailed above, good at both shooting an close combat.
Arms master with arc hammer.
Road sergeant with heavy bolter
Shotgun savant guy with shotgun and sawed off shotgun, nor sure if it should be a sergeant or arms master.
Specialist with grenade launcher.
2x wreckers, probably with flails and stub guns.
3-5 Gunners with assorted Bolguns, combat shotguns and autoguns.
Obviously it isn't possible to start with all this.
Any comments or advice is welcome.

 

[El Torro]

Your idea of an Orlock gang looks pretty sound.

A Road Sergeant with heavy bolter is a big investment in credits. Especially if you want to equip him with suspensors, which you definitely should. I wouldn't get him at gang creation, at least not the heavy bolter with suspensors. You can of course, but you'll find it hard building a decent gang with all those credits in one model.

As for Arms Masters, an arc hammer is a good loadout, as is a shotgun with Shotgun Savant. I think 1 Arms Master in a gang is enough. That might just be me though.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and to Necromunda.
I owned the 95 edition and played a few games back then but not much more.
Now I have bought the new edition and I'm primarily interested in playing Orlock.
I have started modelling and painting a little.
I understand it is a common house rule to allow weapon swaps and I'm going to build my gang with that in mind.
I'm not very interested in painting several different versions of leaders and champions so I'm thinking of building the models as i envison their end stage when upgraded and accept that they are not 100% wysiwyg from start. Do people in general find this approach acceptable?

For example for my leader I'm thinking of equipping him with a combi bolter/melta a thunder hammer and a plasma pistol. From the start he will treat these weapons as a boltgun and maul/power maul and a stubgun. Model will be holding the combi weapon and thunder hammer and have a holsterd gun.
Is this a crazy idea or would most people allow it?

As long as your group agreed in advance for it.
Only basic gangers and juves are stuck with thier initial weapons all other fighters have Tools of the trade. So they can have more weapons to upgrade to and just make another fighter card.
(Combi weapons especially bolter ones are very punishing to you. The worst result of two ammo rolls even after the other profile has jammed is just bad. You would be better getting two separate weapons).
"Painting several different versions of leaders and champions". I initially did that. Very costly. A better plan is to use a model drill and 2mm/1mm magnets to magnetise the arms so they can be readily swamped out so a single body can have multiple load ours for one paint job. You can even do it with heads so they have a normal head and a respirators one. It also used more of the sprues.
Every GW gang can be magnetised in the arms if you are careful and GW's love of shoulder pads hides many of the worst joins. I have done it for the lot except Corpse grinders (not a gang I play).

Go forth and do the House of Iron proud!

 

[Happy!]

I've seen the argument against combi bolter weapons before, but is worst of 2 ammo rolls really that bad for a weapon that fails 5/6 times as a regular weapon anyway. Melta componet is hit worse going from 50% failure to 75% failure and not possible to reload. Lucky legendary name can be used to reload bolter or smash someone up really bad with the thunder hammer.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

The wording for combi weapons is missing a few key words. It says "worst result" not worst result for that profile which is what I am pretty sure is what GW meant. THe worst result is that both profiles run out of ammo so grammar rules lead to you needing the 6+ ammo roll twice even on the melta profile. Later in the Combi rule they even state that the other profile ammo is traced separately but the grammar of the previous sentence contradicts that.
All they needed to do was write "worst result for that profile". Three extra words! Was that so hard GW?

Bear in mind that the bolter profile also has the Combi rule so even when the Melta part has run out of ammo you still need to roll 2 D6 and get double sixes on every ammo roll. That goes that a 1/6 chance every time you fire, getting the Ammo symbol on the Firepower dice, you then have a 35/36 chance of running out of ammo on your bolter as well and then you have a 1/36 chance of reloading the weapon again every Reload action. Dice gods are cruel and such events will pop up a lot.

Personally I go for Orlock Special weapons over Heavy weapons with only One Big Gun to keep up the mobility without forking out for 60 credit suspensors for every heavy weapon. Orlocks get Plasma Guns on their list and they are great. For the House gangs Esher will out pace you dancing around the battlefield, Delaque will force redeployment with their sneaky tricks and Goliaths will keep coming to smash you into paste so you need to keep your distance. Cawdor are not inherently tough themselves but a tide of Blunderpoles will step over the downed juves and spam templates and Van Saar will out shoot you often at greater range requiring you to close the distance and move in for the kill. Mobility is key for Orlocks. as generalists they need to adapt. When credits allow a Plasma Pistol armed wreaker will do the work popping up and hitting far above their weight.

The arms master with hammer can mess up gangers and such but be wary of other melee champions and leaders. Death maidens and Naght Ghuls will just outclass them without a little help. Stimm Slug Stashes and a Frezon Collar would help a lot.

 

[Happy!]

I interpret worst result as the worst die roll and nothing more. It wouldn't make sense to present different ammo values for the parts of a combi weapon and then have a rule that says you always use the worst value.
I see that I missed that the combi malus applies to reloading as well so won't work with a lucky bolter reload.

I have very little experience actually playing the game so I don't have any feeling for how many turns a game usually last and how many times you typically fire your weapons in a game.
I thought 3 different guns that almost automatically fail ammo rolls and can't be reloaded/almost impossible to reload would still be enough most games?


What do you think of the Thunder hammer and lucky combo? If you get a chance to strike you are guaranteed at least one automatic hit which deals 4 wounds with no save. Should be good night for most fighters?

 

[Lunarcruiser]

I interpret worst result as the worst die roll and nothing more. It wouldn't make sense to present different ammo values for the parts of a combi weapon and then have a rule that says you always use the worst value.
I see that I missed that the combi malus applies to reloading as well so won't work with a lucky bolter reload.

I have very little experience actually playing the game so I don't have any feeling for how many turns a game usually last and how many times you typically fire your weapons in a game.
I thought 3 different guns that almost automatically fail ammo rolls and can't be reloaded/almost impossible to reload would still be enough most games?


What do you think of the Thunder hammer and lucky combo? If you get a chance to strike you are guaranteed at least one automatic hit which deals 4 wounds with no save. Should be good night for most fighters?

Paragraph one I agree with you in the rules as intended interpretation. it is just a case of imperfect GW writing. What a shock.
Paragraph two. Most scenario/missions actually have no turn limit they continue until one gang or both have no more fighters on the board or a specific victory condition has been fulfilled. With enough terrain to hid in or timid players you could spend dozens of turns just avoiding each other until one of you over reaches and opens you up to attack. A few missions could conceivably be run without attacking anyone at all. Ghast harvest can end when all the deposits are exhausted for example.
Paragraph three. The Thunder Hammer is super nasty and with lucky that hit will be devastating. You will get to do it once then your opponent will never let your tank buster near them again. If you keep getting hit by it they may properly read the Lucky, Power and Shock rules. Both the Power and Shock rules state the words "natural 6". The Lucky legendary name says "this fighter can change the result of one dice they have rolled to a 6". That is not technically a natural 6 so the Power and Shock rules do not actually apply in this case. A S+1 AP-1 D3 hit is still very nasty and good night for most fighters as you put it anyway plus any additional attacks that you hit with. I am not sure that GW have spotted this rule interaction or not.
Lucky is a powerful legendary name but it is best used, when facing rules lawyers, on effects and rolls that do not hinge on the words "natural 6". Knockback just needs equal or greater than targets S which a 6 is likely to be for example. The change to 6 could also be used as part of a Combi ammo roll if you use such guns. Pulverise uses a opposed T check which a 6 should beat anyway. And there is always that 6+ armour save you need to pass from a point blank Van Saar Lascannon hit.

 

[Happy!]

I thought the lucky and thunder hammer combo would work as lucky changes the result of the die roll to a 6 instead of modifying it or rerolling it. I guess it's one for the rules lawyers to iron out if it's not answered in a FAQ.

It makes me a little sad that there is no love for neither the combi boltgun/melta or the heavy bolter. They are two of the coolest weapons for Orlocks in my opinion. I want to build a competitive Orlock gang but also want a cool fluffy gang. Spamming plasma weapons doesn't feel like Orlock at all even if everybody seem to love those.

Here is an actual starting list,

Leader - boltgun, power maul, stubgun+dumdum, mesh armour
215

Arms master - arc hammer, stubgun +dumdum, mesh armour
190

Road Sargent - shogun, sawn-off shotgun
125

2xWrecker - flail, stubgun
160

Specialist - grenade launcher
110

Gunner - combat shotgun
100

Gunner - Boltgun
100

1000 points

Competitive or not?

 

[Lunarcruiser]

I do like the heavy bolter but in spite of mathematical probability I roll the ammo symbol far to often with it. When I run with the heavy stubber it almost never turns up.
Your list looks fairly good
I would drop the Dum Dums and the stubgun on either your captain or Arms master and get a suit of mesh for your Sergeant. Stub guns are a good back up and by all means get the cheap as chips guns after your first game. But a bit of protection early on is a better bet. A bad run of luck in your first game and a fluke autogun shot giving your Sergeant a critical injury is very costly 20-120 credit for a medical escort action which a mere 15 credit suit of mesh could have saved.
The natural 6 interactions with many weapon rule in particular has made it through many FAQs and revisions so I don't think it will change but as I said many other effects are triggered on any 6 not just natural ones.

 

[Tk421wayayp]

As long as your group agreed in advance for it.
Only basic gangers and juves are stuck with thier initial weapons all other fighters have Tools of the trade. So they can have more weapons to upgrade to and just make another fighter card.
(Combi weapons especially bolter ones are very punishing to you. The worst result of two ammo rolls even after the other profile has jammed is just bad. You would be better getting two separate weapons).
"Painting several different versions of leaders and champions". I initially did that. Very costly. A better plan is to use a model drill and 2mm/1mm magnets to magnetise the arms so they can be readily swamped out so a single body can have multiple load ours for one paint job. You can even do it with heads so they have a normal head and a respirators one. It also used more of the sprues.
Every GW gang can be magnetised in the arms if you are careful and GW's love of shoulder pads hides many of the worst joins. I have done it for the lot except Corpse grinders (not a gang I play).

Go forth and do the House of Iron proud!

Agree with magnetising, it's a lot easier than you expect (as long as shoulder joins are simple flat surfaces or ball and socket) and magnets are cheap on eBay. Just make sure you drill the holes nice and central and get the magnet polarities correct so that it's consistent across all bodies and arms i.e. same pole always pointing outwards on every body and the corresponding pole facing outward on all arms - makes everything interchangeable across the whole gang that way. I use a 2mm drill bit and just twist it between my fingers. It's very satisfying when your finished!

 

[Lunarcruiser]

At the start of your posts you said you played the original version and were just starting with the new edition. You have much greater access to cool toys such as armour than the original game so enjoy getting armour for everyone eventually. Look into Ablative Armour as well. All those leather biker jackets on orlocks...