Inquisimunda v2.1 Wyrds & Psychic Powers

[Tiny]

By all means @Meavar I would love to see some input on a stealer powers table, even if its just broad ideas for me to flesh out.

Some potential ideas for summoning:

• A model may only summon before the game. That cuts back on having too many Daemons about. Would lose the potential for perils and daemons turning on you though.
• Alternatively make the powers "once per game". That stops models having multiple daemons but also makes level 1 mooks pretty crappy once their daemon has been summoned.
• Make summoning powers only available to Level 2+ Wyrds (i.e. re-roll if you are level 1).
• Make god-specific powers only available to models with a Mark of chaos. Means only weaker Daemonology summoning available to cheap fodder.
• Model that fails Psychic Test MUST try again next turn, and the next, and the next until a Daemon is summoned. If he chooses not to or is unable to try again for any reason (i.e. pinned or down), he automatically suffers perils (i.e. once the ritual is started, it can't be stopped without some daemonic retribution).
• Rather than summoning at the end of the turn, have the summoner wait round until the beginning of their next turn before the summoning happens. Gives the opponent a whole turn to interrupt the summoning.

Things to bear in mind when worrying about hordes of cheap mooks spamming summons:

• Mooks will have to roll the correct power first.
• Mooks generally have low Ld so are likely to fail a lot, especially on the -2Ld versions of powers.
• Mooks will be Level 1 so higher chance to perils than others.
• Mooks will still cost at least 55TG (human juve level 1 Wyrd with no weapons or gear) and usually more like 75-80 (giving them an autogun or a pistol and sword) so aren't exactly "expendable".
• If the "expendable" Mook dies (from getting shot or his head exploding etc), you have lost a very rare and precious gang member.
• If players in your group are spamming "summoning mooks" tell them to piss off.

I hadn't realised quite how expensive in TG the daemons were, compared to say a Clawed Fiend. I think Daemons are a little too expensive in the document but agree the powers need toning back a bit.

Let me know where you all stand on this and I will do my best to come to a solution. Will be working on finishing the chaos tables this evening so expect to see them soon.

 

[Tiny]

From looking over my thoughts in the previous post, I would vote for a combo of:

• Make god-specific powers only available to models with a Mark of chaos. Means only weaker Daemonology summoning available to cheap fodder.

And

• Rather than summoning at the end of the turn, have the summoner wait round until the beginning of their next turn before the summoning happens. Gives the opponent a whole turn to interrupt the summoning.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[Meavar]

I like the idea of summoning only for the one with a mark of chaos (and maybe also the magos of that god even if he is not the one with the mark?)

I would not let it wait till the next turn. while it makes disrupting easyer, it also is another exception that is not really necesary I think.

I do like the idea of having to keep summoning till it works, but this might be a bit to much if any disruption means you suffer a peril of the warp.
I would skip the summoning before a game, leave that to the beastmaster, (maybe do allow a deamon to be bought as well so you will standard have a deamon if you want to?)


For the stealer powers:

Personally I would love to see some rule that they do not suffer from perils of the warp/possesion if you choice this table, which is why I tried not to make any really strong flashy powers. Even though some are quite strong, I feel overal the powers are not that insane.
I think most of them should not improve the user itself to much but enhance the feel of the hyve mind, making the warband work as a whole despite generally fewer ranged weapons. I know I have written down 7 right now but I thought I will share the ideas and probably some will be found less exciting.

Shadows of the warp:
Enemy psykers suffers -1 ld and -2 on psychic test.

Dominion:
Friendly models from the genestealer cult within 6 are immune to pinning.

The Horror:
Target any enemy model (not necesary the closest) within 18", the target is pinned

Onslaught:
One friendly model within 12" may both run and shoot this turn

Hypnotic Gaze:
An enemy model within 8 counts his ws as 1

Genestealer Familiar:
You start the game with a genestealer familiar
(weak creature which model counts as the Magus for Brood telepathy)

 

[spafe]

I would go with it being tied to levels, so a lvl 3 can summon from any god, lvl 2 can summon from any god with -2, or lvl one can summon undivided only (obvs lvl 2 and 3 can always summon undivided too).

having the summoner forced to do it again and again I like, I also like the idea of it being on hold til the start of the next turn, something like if the power is cast, you can do nothing that turn, then at the end of the turn place the demon. If the enemy managed to disrupt the summoning in their turn by pinning, downing or out of actioning the summoner then the demon becomes uncontrolled (as obvs the controlling part of the ritual will always be at the end after the beast has materialized!), and will function as a neutral/enemy controlled demon for the rest of the game.

If that makes sense?

on the stealers powers...

I'd have the horror being a nerve test at -2 ld, if failed then the target is broken and will flee.

I'd word onslaught as grants hipshooting to one friendly fighter for the turn.

otherwise I think gaze might be too powerful, but not sure, and the familiar could be really fun but would need some flshing out. Great stuff though!

 

[Meavar]

The main reason why I made it pinning and not to flee is because most specials have no bs bonus, you need at least half your guys as brothers without a bs bonus. And generally gene cult should be a bit cc focused. But this means that you have generally few ways of pinning people. By making them run you do something bad for the enemy but still have little chance to get close to them. And by making it possible to target someone further away you can stop that lone heavy in the back from obliterating your war band for a turn.

 

[spafe]

I hadn't thought of that, good point well made!

 

[Pddrijver]

I've been busy with a Chaos Cultist warband. I fee lthe "chopping your head off" is a bit too much, maybe change it into:

1-3 - fight with random warband member
4-5 self injury (roll on injury table)
6 - chops own head off.

 

[spafe]

Some ideas for fleshing out the chaos tables:

Beguile: Used when the model is in combat. If the psychic test is successful then an opposed LD test (both players roll a d6 and add their respective LD values). If the wyrd wins the roll then the beguiled model is moved 1" away from the (now friendly) wyrd and is under control of the wyrd player for the same amount of turns as the wyrds score beat the victims. EG. if a LD 8 wyrd is in combat with a LD 7 ganger and rolls a 4, while the ganger rolls a 3 then for the next two turns the ganger is controlled by the chaos player. This power has no effect on beasts.

Aura of deceit: Range 18". the target must make a ld check at -1 or shoot at a a member of their own warband during the chaos players shooting phase (chosen and resolved by the owner of the chaos warband).

Miasma of pestilence: instead of shooting a weapon the psycker may attempt to spread a miasma around themselves. If successful all models who are not part of a nurgle warband within 6" suffer a str 3 hit that cannot be saved against except by armour that is sealed.

Putrescent vitality: While the plague father bestows horrendous diseases upon his followers, he also grants them eternal life, allowing them to go forth and spread the contagions they carry. The psycker or one friendly model within 4" regains a wound (up to their starting amount), reduces the number of flesh wounds by 1 and may make one additional walk action in their movement phase (note they can only walk, but after that may run or walk again and shoot, but may not charge as that has to be declared before other moves).

Thoughts anyone? that's 2 for the slanesh and 2 for the nurgle tables

 

[Gregor Firedrake]

As we're talking phykers I think we need to get sanctioned ones sorted out so that puritan gangs can have them and people like arbites don't have wyrds they get sanctioned instead cause it makes no sence that law abiding warbands would have wyrds or unsanctuoned phykers

 

[scavvyjay]

I disagree, some groups of puritan factions are against psykers in all forms. The idea of a sanctioned psyker was a wyrd that has a lot more stability when it comes to using powers. The puritan factions hate witches, heretics, xenos and deviants. They wouldn't have them in their warbands.

@spafe those powers look fine, I think miasma should cause -2 to opponents Ws,B'S, and I as I think it's more like the psyker creates a swampy bog of pus rather than something that really harms them. Maybe there should be a ranged gas template power that causes the ST3 hit instead.

 

[Gregor Firedrake]

Ok puritans ordo Xenos often employ physkers but can't have any, the term wyrd means unsanctuoned. I'm not suggesting factions that have phykers could get them but puritans factions that use phykers
Ordo xenos, ordo malleus, arbites, imperial guard to make a few (will update this with a whole list when I have access to a watband lists, I'm out at the sec) should have access to a sanctioned phyker rather than wyrds or no phykers at all

The emperor is the most powerful phyker of all time. it is 100% incorrect to say all puritans hate phykers, shit even some puritans ordo hereticus inquisitors are phykers what they hate are untrained witches and wyrds there is a ton of fluff to back this up, there are some warbands that should have access to sanctioned phykers who do not get any phykers and again some that have access to wyrds who should not have wyrds (or unsanctuoned) but should have sanctioned psykers

 

[tribeof1]

Inquisimunda has always used "wyrd" as a catch-all term for all sorts of psykers. To differentiate between sanctioned and unsanctioned, Tiny's draft introduces "trained psykers," who are less likely to suffer perils of the warp. As we go through and rework the various warbands, we'll note which ones have wyrds that receive the "trained" (sanctioned) bonus. Those on your list are the likely candidates.

 

[Meavar]

Maybe something along the lines of +10 tg on top of the normal cost
Does not suffer perils on a double 1, may reroll the result on the perils table. But suffers -2 ld for psychic test (I first thought about -1 but I think that might not be enough of a drawback, or the price should increase more).
They are much more careful have much less chance to suffer perils and usually less problematic when it happens, but also take less risks, are less willing to continue when something feels wrong, thus more often they stop the psychic power before it happens.
I think while the ld penalty is quite severe, they will survive nearly 4 times as long as regular wyrds, so a small price increase might be worth it?

 

[spafe]

I'd be more tempted to say make it 20 tg and -1LD... mainly cos otherwise they'd so rarely get powers off (given an average ld of 7 is down to ld5, but even higher than average 8 would be down to 6 otherwise).

Not totally sure either way though, I could be convinced for a harsher ld modifier

 

[Meavar]

If we limit it to just humans I think -1 ld might be ok, since as you said 7=>5 is harsh.
But in the case of abhumans and aliens it is to easy to have ld 8 and even 9 so the -2 seemed important.
So do we want to limit it to humans as the sancioned psykers? Or also allow others like eldar to have formal training (in which case I suggest we allow it for all xenos)?

 

[spafe]

That is a good point... I don't honestly know what the answer is... I would want to say elder can be trained... but that they should pay for it more in tg as their whole idea is powerful but costly... wheras humans capping out to ld 7 because they are caustious also makes sense too. So not sure how to tackle that...

 

[Gregor Firedrake]

i think we should really appreciate they complexity and importance of psykers in the 40k universe and not try and shoe horn them and get them with catch all
i feel we should have rules for
wyrds (any race) to represent natural or unatural mutation
Sanctioned psykers (human Only) to represent people who have been picked up by the black ships and officially been trained (these rules could also function for sourcerers that have been trained by the fell powers)
Warlocks For eldar (added to there warband as a choice) to show there very special connection to the warp (then potentially a far seer hired gun along the lines of the purestains and astartes were talking about elsewhere)

 

[spafe]

Hmm... Further from that... what about leaving it as Wyrd is the rule in the mutation/species bit, unchanged, keeps it inline with necromudna's wording etc.

Then in the inq... void pirates.. whatever else who would have sanctioned psyckers we have a class thing which gives them sanctioned (whether that's inbuilt or a buyable upgrade), likewise in elder warlock we have 'warlock' ability. These are all 'trained' mechanics above, but can then have different costs, and have power levels to it. that way maybe a sanctioned psycker for the guard can have the sanctioned rule (trained lvl 1), the warlock can have warlock rule (trained lvl 2), equally the navigator (who in the fluff is a powerful psyker), can have sanctioned (trained lvl 2), then the HG farseer being warlock (trained lvl 3).

These can then have a staggered level of mitigating factors (like lvl 1 cant be possessed, lvl 2 same as lvl 1 and doesn't peril on a double 1, and lvl 3 is same as lvl 2 but also doesn't peril on a double 6). That's just random example but you get the gist (I hope).

Then maybe have it either tied to class for the ld modifier, or have that as an addional thing that lvl 1 gives -2 to test, or even that being sanctioned gives -2 while being warlock gives -1 or whatever.

Just different ideas, but I would suggest the underlying mechanic being the same, but the level of modifier being adjustable.

 

[Gregor Firedrake]

Yeah i definetly think there are a few was of doing it and am not in anyway set on one and quite like your ideas, i just think that its something that needs to be worked on because it is such a HUGE part of 40k lore and some warbands that in the majoty of fluff should have pykers or not have unsantioned ones atleast lose out and on something that is so intrgal in the 40k galaxy, the end of the day ][Munda is not just set in one little place where the only psykers in any number are weirds, it has broken out of that and is suposed to represent the galaxy as a whole where there are many many more types and infact wyrds become the minority in comparison

 

[tribeof1]

Rather than locking things in too much (ie. Warlocks in the Eldar list are all Level 1 trained psykers, Navigators are Level 2 trained, etc.) I'd like to leave it as customizable as possible (ie., pay the points for whatever level you want) so individual players can use the rules to match the fluff they'd like.

As for trained (Sanctioned) or untrained psykers, we can probably just put a note in the individual warbands about what is allowed. So, Inquisitorial cells might be restricted to only employing trained psykers, but a Rogue Trader might have the option of purchasing trained or untrained wyrds. Chaos Covens might be prohibited from purchasing trained psykers.

I think the benefit for training in @Tiny 's draft is sufficient. We could either charge points for it (so "Trained" is perhaps a +10 TG option in the wyrd listing) or make it free but offer a roughly equal benefit for untrained psykers and let the player choose one or the other when creating the wyrd.

Maybe something like:
Untrained Wyrds: Some Wyrds operate without formal training, the raw power of their abilities making them potent but more susceptible to possession or attack by the entities of the Warp. If an untrained Wyrd fails a Psychic Test, the player may choose to immediately reroll one die. If the new result of the Psychic Test is a double (even if it is successful) the Wyrd must roll on the Perils of the Warp table.