N18 Collected Errors/Typos in N23 Rulebook

If you Charge, you get a Move and then either a Fight or a Coup de Grace, depending on the status of the target (or Hurl if you have the skill). As part of a Fight action you can Coup de Grace if all fighters previously engaged are now Seriously Injured, or Consolidate if they are either Seriously Injured or Out of Action.
 
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What's the state of <Faction> fighter now? Looking at Overseer skill, it applies to any "friendly fighter". Note that during the "house of" books in the N20-N21 era, the term <faction> fighter was introduced and used for Overseer (for example "Goliath fighter"). However that term was never defined. Is this a move away from that?

Got that weird mix where all alliances that includes Overseer limits it to <faction> fighters, except Greim which doesn't...
 
Think this was what was referenced right at start of this thread as a change!
Yeah you're right, that's what the goonhammer note was all about. I'm still amazed you figured it out from the previous rulebook because that was so implicit it made my heart hurt cross-referencing those rules to come to that conclusion which is now explicitly spelled out.

Also, not sure if mentioned before (lost overview o_O), but pets now have t heir own Hot-headed rule. Which is kinda funny because each unique "hot-headed" rule doesn't interact with each other. Pets won't make Prospects panic and vice versa. And the fluff background for hot-headed is:
Fighters with this special rule have much to prove and often act on impulse alone, hoping to impress their superiors. Consequently, older and wiser fighters expect them to be short-lived.
So a pet is wiser, older and superior to a Prospect :whistle: Ideally there would be some tier system where pets are bottom, prospects are one level above etc. Too detailed perhaps for very little gains.
 
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What skills have changed? So far I found Overseer, Hurl, Headbutt and Medicae (can Medicae be used on itself?).

Iron Jaw now gives +2 T against all melee attacks with AP - instead of just unarmed attacks (RAW it doesn't work against Mauls/Clubs as they have AP +1).
Escape Artist now gives +1 to trying to free oneself during a Rescue Mission if combined with a skinblade (The skinblade itself also now gives +2 to the roll to see if the fighter is actually captured in the first place rather than having it's own check to be made).
Mentor changed from potentially granting 2XP instead of 1XP each time 1XP would be earned, to potentially gaining an additional XP each time XP is gained (pretty much what I considered RAI, but the old RAW raised questions about putting Champions Out of Action and whether that was 2XP thus ineligible for Mentoring, or two instances of 1XP that are both eligible).

Also, not sure if mentioned before (lost overview o_O), but pets now have t heir own Hot-headed rule. Which is kinda funny because each unique "hot-headed" rule doesn't interact with each other. Pets won't make Prospects panic and vice versa.

Don't get me started on how mismatched Phelynx lore and rules are...
 
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Thanks! I believe Escape Artist is unchanged:
ESCAPE ARTIST
When this fighter makes a Retreat (Basic) action, add 2 to the result of their Initiative check (a natural 1 still fails). Additionally, if this fighter is Captured at the end of a battle, and if they are equipped with a skinblade, they may add 1 to the result of the dice roll to see if they can escape during the Rescue Mission scenario.

Skinblade changed though as you described.
 
Feels like some of the tactics rewordings degenerate the quality.
  • Lucky Find: A weapon is automatically reloaded. No action needed like in the first version? Normally can't make an Ammo test without the Reload action (old card used to require the action first).
  • Beast Lure: No mention of the possibility of being attacked if not moving far enough (old card used to specify this).
  • Grenade Bouquet: Runs out of ammo (old card used to specify this as automatically failing an ammo test). This stuff matters for Unstasble (Plasma grenade).
  • Last Gasp: If using a Grenade it is no longer centered on the fighter. The old clarification to make Fight if Engaged and otherwise Shoot if not is removed. This may indicate an implicit requirement to apply standard rules when using this ability? But of course Battle Madness still clarifies to use Fight if Engaged or Shoot if Active... so who knows? This could affect other cards like Chain Attack, which allows to make a free Charge. The official Yak ruling back in the day was opposite, it allowed to disengage and make the Charge in an otherwise illegal situation of being engaged.
Thanks to finally having a clarification on Simple/Basic/Double in this rulebook, it clarifies a lot of tactics that I assume would commonly be interpreted in the strictest way. For example Reaction Fire allows to make a "Shoot (Basic)" action when an enemy activates. This now means any Shoot action, so could be an Unwieldy heavy weapon (Double). Because Opening Volley (another card) also allows to make free Shoot (Basic) actions, but explicitly prevents this to be Simple/Double.
 
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Thanks! I believe Escape Artist is unchanged:
Yeah, looks like that had changed by at least Ash Wastes if not before. Old hardback book didn't say "during the Rescue Mission scenario". When skinblades provided their own D6 roll post-game to attempt escape, prior to a rescue attempt, I had always assumed it was the skinblade roll that Escape Artist gave +1 to. It had never occured to me that it was supposed to affect the other escape roll.
 
Looks like updates to Scenarios.

Example 1: Border Dispute (p130 2018 Rulebook, p204 2023 Core Rulebook).
- Crew Selection: Hybrid D3 +3 rather than Random D3 + 3
- Rewards: Experience - (1) Winning Leader gains d3 exp (instead of 1XP to leader if only gang still with fighters on table); (2) Loss and gain of D3 reputation, rather than 2 Reputation; (3) No longer gain 1 reputation if first time fighting the other gang.
- Fleeing the Battlefield: It is now a random ganger, not automatically the leader, who automatically defiles the fleeing gangs relic if not already defiled.
 
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I won't summarize all changes to scenarios and tactics as that's too much work. Happy to comment on it though!

In general, a bit surprising to see the streamlining change in battlefield type. It's now either Underhive or Ash Wastes. Underhive includes Zone Mortalis & Sector Mechanicus (without any details to distinguish them in terms of setup, deployment etc.). For the purpose of using the "latest" version as the most up to date and correct, this has some consequences. For example Rescue Mission comes in 5 versions now, and the latest is only for Underhive, not Ash Wastes. Which might affect as recent campaigns as Ash Wastes (last year). Not a big problem to override and use Ash Wastes if people want to do that.

Otherwise it looks like all scenarios are updates of existing versions, ranging from v2 to v5. Some nice quality streamlining in terms of the most updated Fleeing the Battlefield. Also removal of old stuff, for example Smash & Grab no longer uses the physical loot boxes to put secret traps in some of them, but instead roll on an alternative table. Which I think is a little bit sad as hiding stuff inside loot was a fun concept.

New standard 'format' that repeats across most scenarios:
  • Removal of +1 Rep reward for playing against a gang for the first time.
  • XP reward to victorious leader is D3 (instead of 1).
  • Fleeing the Battlefield (voluntarily Bottles out and subsequently flees the battlefield) :giggle:
  • More use of Hybrid (new crew selection mechanic)
  • Attacker & Defender: Attacker is the gang that issued the challenge (instead of the gang that chose the scenario)
  • Tactics: More use of the new standard selection :giggle:
That's all nice and consistent for these reprinted scenarios. Problem is no previous scenarios follow this format, and it is guaranteed to change as it always does. So in my opinion just another flavor of the month kind of thing. Hopefully at least some of the quality improvements can continue for future publications.
 
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Is there anyway to equip vehicles from House Lists yet? It's fucking BS that I CAN equip a vehicle with a Chem Thrower if I want, but it must come the stash. The only way I can see to get a Chem Thrower into the stash is to retire a Fighter equipped with one..
One loophole is buying a Master Crafted version of the same weapon. You're allowed to stash a weapon if you replace it with one that is Master Crafted. Bit expensive way..
 
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I keep thinking of little rules niggles I had and looking them up to find they have indeed been addressed. The Retreat action has now been clarified that your enemy gets to make his Initiative test to hit you, regardless of if you were successful in your Initiative test to move away or not.
 
It's now either Underhive or Ash Wastes. Underhive includes Zone Mortalis & Sector Mechanicus (without any details to distinguish them in terms of setup, deployment etc.).
Which is not a surprise as their Sector Mechanicus terrain seems to be slowly being discontinued and the plastic Zone Mortalis has gone multi-level.

I prefer the distinction that ZM is a maze/labyrinth of walls or other detritus and it’s played on one level only (the floor/tabletop surface) and anything else is Sector Mechanicus (multi level and interconnected).

Would be nice if they did specify as I think a lot of people have ditched classic* ZM now and use the multi level kits with the same name. They’re missing out on a tactical challenge IMO.

*like the resin tiles they sold once, not the cardboard tiles from 2017, though they serve a similar purpose it confuses a lot of people who think ZM means “flat cardboard game tiles” thanks to that first box set.
 
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I won't summarize all changes to scenarios and tactics as that's too much work. Happy to comment on it though!

In general, a bit surprising to see the streamlining change in battlefield type. It's now either Underhive or Ash Wastes. Underhive includes Zone Mortalis & Sector Mechanicus (without any details to distinguish them in terms of setup, deployment etc.). For the purpose of using the "latest" version as the most up to date and correct, this has some consequences. For example Rescue Mission comes in 5 versions now, and the latest is only for Underhive, not Ash Wastes. Which might affect as recent campaigns as Ash Wastes (last year). Not a big problem to override and use Ash Wastes if people want to do that.

Otherwise it looks like all scenarios are updates of existing versions, ranging from v2 to v5. Some nice quality streamlining in terms of the most updated Fleeing the Battlefield. Also removal of old stuff, for example Smash & Grab no longer uses the physical loot boxes to put secret traps in some of them, but instead roll on an alternative table. Which I think is a little bit sad as hiding stuff inside loot was a fun concept.

New standard 'format' that repeats across most scenarios:
  • Removal of +1 Rep reward for playing against a gang for the first time.
  • XP reward to victorious leader is D3 (instead of 1).
  • Fleeing the Battlefield (voluntarily Bottles out and subsequently flees the battlefield) :giggle:
  • More use of Hybrid (new crew selection mechanic)
  • Attacker & Defender: Attacker is the gang that issued the challenge (instead of the gang that chose the scenario)
  • Tactics: More use of the new standard selection :giggle:
That's all nice and consistent for these reprinted scenarios. Problem is no previous scenarios follow this format, and it is guaranteed to change as it always does. So in my opinion just another flavor of the month kind of thing. Hopefully at least some of the quality improvements can continue for future publications.

Interestingly, the new 'Rescue Mission' is not explicitly a mission which uses the Sneak Attack rules.

I mean, it obviously does - the defender's crews are described as their sentries, and reinforcements are mentioned to arrive after the alarm is raised, but no where does it say (as in previous iterations) that the Sneak Attack Rules are used for this scenario.

I guess the explicit mention of using the Sneak Attack rules is no longer strictly necessary (and Sentry rules are again changed, and again for the better (they are essentially the 'Hive War' version without explicitly calling the pre-alarm part of the scenario the 'Sentry Round'), but it feels like this should at least be mentioned in the scenario rules (as it has been previously), in particular for new players to help them spot there are specific rules for what sentries are, and how the alarm is raised, elsewhere in the rules.
 
Which is not a surprise as their Sector Mechanicus terrain seems to be slowly being discontinued and the plastic Zone Mortalis has gone multi-level.

I prefer the distinction that ZM is a maze/labyrinth of walls or other detritus and it’s played on one level only (the floor/tabletop surface) and anything else is Sector Mechanicus (multi level and interconnected).

Would be nice if they did specify as I think a lot of people have ditched classic* ZM now and use the multi level kits with the same name. They’re missing out on a tactical challenge IMO.

*like the resin tiles they sold once, not the cardboard tiles from 2017, though they serve a similar purpose it confuses a lot of people who think ZM means “flat cardboard game tiles” thanks to that first box set.
It is spelled out in an optional way (for the first time?), that is better than nothing:
TUNNEL WARFARE
When creating an Underhive battlefield, the default is that the ceiling is high up above the ground and so walls can be climbed up onto and stairs and ladders used. However if both players agree, the claustrophobic confines of tunnel battles can be recreated by stating that the ceiling is at the height of one wall section, meaning walls cannot be climbed over, and stairs and ladders can not be used.
-p185
And how come SM terrain is going OoP before ZM?!? Could have bet money on the opposite.
 
I keep thinking of little rules niggles I had and looking them up to find they have indeed been addressed. The Retreat action has now been clarified that your enemy gets to make his Initiative test to hit you, regardless of if you were successful in your Initiative test to move away or not.
It could have started with the enemies passing Initiative tests to attack, instead of the retreating fighter passing Initiative test to disengage. To potentially skip unnecessary rolls. But hey, let the dice roll! Traditionally not the biggest priority in GW games :p It would also made it much clearer (before and now) even with the added "regardless" clause.

Possibly a weird distinction that the retreating fighter moves D6" regardless being seriously injured by the reaction attacks? Another niggle!
 
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It could look like some effort was made to standardize the scenarios (after at least 5 attempts for some of them). Removing odd caveats and being more generous in applying stuff like Fleeing The Battlefield. But suddenly one of them rewards the leader 1 XP instead of D3, and I just don't understand why. Or another doesn't have the improved wording for Fleeing the Battlefield. <Insert apolegetic fluff reason here...>
 
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