N18 Collected Errors/Typos in Hive Secundus (N24)

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TopsyKretts

Hive Lord
Dec 29, 2017
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This is a rulebook that comes in a box and tied to that content, but unlike all other "box rulebooks" this seems to be pretty complete. Let's do a deep dive and see what we find.


A summary of various findings (contributed by several yaktribe champions).

INTERNAL CONFLICTS
  • Round / Turn (p127): "At the end of each round's End phase, a number of reinforcements as indicated by the scenario, plus any Brood Scum that were removed from the battlefield that turn, arrive using the Reinforcements rules...".
    • Comment: Ideally round and turn should be different, but rules mix these up on several occasions. Round is what the entire round, so pretty obvious, but turn should mean an activation or group activation.
EXTERNAL CONFLICTS (CONFLICT WITH PREVIOUS PUBLICATIONS)
  • Combi flamer (p156): Listed as a combi weapon, but doesn't have Combi trait.
    • Comment: Combi trait is explained in the book (doesn't include an exhaustive list of all traits) and this is the only combi weapon in the book. So should have combi trait, like previous publications. Why is it even Combi? Other ranged-melee weapon combinations (like Blunderbuss with Polearm) doesn't have Combi trait.
ERRORS
  • Orrus - Master of the Hunt (p140): Ignores Nerve tests when friendly fighters go OoA.
    • Comment: Doesn't ignore Nerve tests when friendly fighters are Seriously Injured?
  • Archeo-loot (p115): "This (Data Crystal) Stash may then be spent to randomly draw items from the Archeo-loot deck (see below)..."
    • Comment: No deck within the book to refer to - this breaks from recent tradition of having cards included in the text of the book. Presumably "see below" references the Archeo-loot Power Level text box. That text box would have been better titled "Find Hidden Tech (post-battle action)" as that's how it's referenced in the post-battle actions list on page 96.
NOTES
CHANGES AND IMPROVEMENTS
  • Field armour paragraph added to "Resolve hits", further indicating save timing is identical as normal save (regardless of what the field armours themselves may say).
 
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The new Orrus Spyrer got an ability called "Master of the Hunt":

a Spyrer never needs to check if t hey become Broken as a result of a friendly model being taken Out of Action.
Click to expand...
Was this intended to be the same as immunity to Nerve test? Because strictly speaking it is not. Nerve tests are normally triggered when a friendly fighter is Seriously Injured or taken Out of Action. Spyrer should ignore both? Also, Nerve tests could be inflicted by other means, like certain spells, the Fear trait and pets going too far from their owner.
 
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TopsyKretts said:
Yeah that makes sense. Listing it as an error (RAW) as it clearly doesn't make sense to ignore Nerve test for OoA but not SI.
Click to expand...
Your hireling (who according to the fluff is  meant to act as support/meatshield) is seriously injured?
No biggie, the hire is doing what they're meant to do and providing another action's worth of delay to the enemy and may get back up of their own accord. It's a state the fighter can come back from.

The same fighter goes out of action? Oh shit, that could be a problem, now more of those same attacks will be coming your way...

Not sure it should be considered a typo - it may just be an intended lesser version of immunity to Nerve tests.
Compared to similar marginally effective traits cluttering up the basic skill lists it tracks fine.
 
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If it's no biggie when your hireling is seriously injured, why do the Spyker have to take Nerve test then? The rules say when the same fighter goes out of action, you ignore the Nerve test. Not strictly a typo (spelling mistake?), but a mistake none the less..
 
Have there been combi-weapons with dual shoot/melee set before? Given the man-catcher part doesn’t have ammo might be the reason why it doesn’t have the trait.
 
Nemrex said:
Have there been combi-weapons with dual shoot/melee set before? Given the man-catcher part doesn’t have ammo might be the reason why it doesn’t have the trait.
Click to expand...
Combipistols with flamer that have sidearm trait on the non-flamer profiles spring to mind.
 
Nemrex said:
Have there been combi-weapons with dual shoot/melee set before? Given the man-catcher part doesn’t have ammo might be the reason why it doesn’t have the trait.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Examples of earlier weapons:
- Blunderbuss/Polearm
- Webber/Mancatcher
- Exterminator (have single shot so combi wouldn't make a difference)
 
gorketh said:
How does the rulebook compare with the 2023 Rulebook? Is there "value" in buying the box set for the rulebook instead of 2023 Rulebook?
Click to expand...
It compares reasonably well! This seem to be near identical to the previous rulebook, unlike all other rulebooks. However, it has certain limitations reflecting the box it came with. The Weapon Traits is not complete and no Trading Post. But it has Psyker rules unlike N19 and N21 rulebooks.
 
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There's some minor changes on pg86 under 'Resolve Hits' where they've added a paragraph on 'Field armour', making it clear you can use Field armour or normal armour not both. Presumably due to the inclusion of Field armour as a separate 'type' for various Spyrers rather than being tied into specific Wargear.

This also clarifies when you can use Field armour, so despite the weird wording around Displacer/Conversion/Refraction fields these take place at the same point during the combat sequence as any other type of armour. This should put to bed the suggestion that you use these when 'hit'.
 
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The already existing text sort of says the same thing, making it a bit redundant:
Only one Save roll may be made for each hit that successfully wounds, or leads to an Injury roll being made, regardless of how many different Save rolls a fighter may have. For example, if a fighter wears both mesh armour and a refractor field, they may only attempt a Save roll against a successful Wound roll with one of those items.
Click to expand...
Compared to the new text that was added:
Some Wargear and abilities may grant a model a Field armour save. These saves are not modified by a weapon's AP characteristic. Note, a model may use either their armour or Field armour when making a Save roll, they may not use both.
Click to expand...
 
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The Xeno-Phagic Blade (Archeo-loot) wounds Broodspire on 2+. What is Broodspire? Is it the Malstrain Champion final boss (Malstrain Genestealer with +1 A, T & S)?
 
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I might be too green with the current rules, but I dont get why the weapon of the floating aliens have both toxic and radphage. Also AP on a toxic weapon seems pointless?
 
Toxin and Rad phage act separately.
A unsaved Toxin hit then requires a toughness test to inflict an Injury Dice roll.
Rad phaged hits have the normal hit rules apples first (whatever the rest of the weapon stats, Toxin rules, the S2 Ap-2 D1 of a rad gun or whatever, then the radphage trait is applied separately inflicting a Flesh Wound on a 4+ regardless of any other result of the strike).
A toxin Radphage weapon hit if unsaved can trigger a Flesh Wound, Serious Injury or Out of Action results from the Toxin trait and on a 4+ trigger a Flesh Wound from the Rad phage trait. This could potentially dish out Two Flesh Wounds per hit. (Serious Injuries also give flesh wounds now so two flesh wounds in a Typical T3 model essentially takes them out).

Toxin weapon hits are subject to the normal rules for armour save (unless they have another trait that affects or ignore armour saves such as Power or Phase).
You may be thinking of the Gas trait which does ignore armour but the Toxin one does not.
 
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Right! I havent played newmunda in a long time so I just had no clue really :)

But cool, you get a save against toxin!
So for those floating aliens, it goes:
- score to hit
- for each successful hit, roll to save (with AP)
- for each failed to save, roll an injury dice and on a 4+ get a fleshwound on top.

Wait... do you get a fleshwound instantly when you are seriously injured?! I definitely need to read the rules again :D


Anyway, don't mind me these arent secundus issues, just me having to re read and rediscover this ruleset.
 
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